Criminalising Wild Camping

[clewless]

The following is an extract from the Cycling UK website. They are concerned that the government might bring in legislation aimed at Travelers & Gypsy encampments. Their concern is that the law may be so wide ranging that it will criminalise all wild camping.

"Criminalising camping?
The Government is currently consulting on whether to make ‘intentional trespass’ a criminal offence – but because of vague wording, we are concerned that this could be interpreted to include wild camping......."

The full report can be viewed at https://www.cyclinguk.org/article/criminalising-camping . If cyclists, ramblers, canoeists etc. are concerned about this, then we should be doubly so.

 

[Moonraker 2]

Do you not remember the fight they had years ago for the right to ramble. This is still a feudal country, carved up and owned by the few.

 

[trevskoda]

Do you not remember the fight they had years ago for the right to ramble. This is still a feudal country, carved up and owned by the few.

And a few very very rich titled tight ar-e GITS.

 

[chrismilo]

Isn't there a clause in the magna carta that gives one the right to Roam freely ?

 

[runnach]

I had this as an email from cycling uk, they are teaming with the ramblers, suggesting it should only apply to motorised transport few friends in their ranks. As I mentioned in another post this is nothing new, as far back as the late 19th century and the van dwellers Bill which was defeated .

Aside the proposed legislation would affect the few Romany horse pulled vans that exist . The argument put forward in their defence is interesting along the lines they are a part of English heritage showing a glimpse of how the English countryside once operated when before automation travelling folk provided the seasonal labour for agriculture

 

[trevskoda]

Isn't there a clause in the magna carta that gives one the right to Roam freely ?

As long as its not on some big rich lads property,but the word tresspas means three times passer so in fact you can not be done for it.

 

[runnach]

As long as its not on some big rich lads property,but the word tresspas means three times passer so in fact you can not be done for it.

No idea trev, the whole argument really boils down to it being criminalised and not a civil offence

 

[clewless]

As long as its not on some big rich lads property,but the word tresspas means three times passer so in fact you can not be done for it.

No idea trev, the whole argument really boils down to it being criminalised and not a civil offence

Channa has hit the nail on the head. At present, the landowner only has the right to ask you to leave his property. They can only prosecute you (and it is a civil prosecution), if you have caused damage; which hopefully none of us would do. However, if this law goes ahead, then wild campers could conceivably end up with a criminal record just for stopping in a layby overnight. Just see what happens to your chances of getting insurance (let alone a job) once you have a criminal record!!

 

[antiquesam]

Perhaps the government are starting to see the value of motorhomers after there change of heart in the budget yesterday.

 

[GreggBear]

Don't hold your breath....

 

[Robmac]

Unfortunately all part of government control of the masses in my opinion. Any pastime that people enjoy seems to be restricted more and more and of course the more money they can extract the better.

I think George Orwell's vision of the future was quite mild when compared to reality.

 

[trevskoda]

They should remember what the french did to the ones on top.

 

[Robmac]

They should remember what the french did to the ones on top.View attachment 77381

Indeed Trev

Come the revolution...

 

[colinm]

Channa has hit the nail on the head. At present, the landowner only has the right to ask you to leave his property. They can only prosecute you (and it is a civil prosecution), if you have caused damage; which hopefully none of us would do. However, if this law goes ahead, then wild campers could conceivably end up with a criminal record just for stopping in a layby overnight. Just see what happens to your chances of getting insurance (let alone a job) once you have a criminal record!!

A land owner can take you to civil court damage or no damage, but once you have caused damage it becomes a criminal case.

 

[Fazerloz]

I blame every old git that goes on " The Chase" saying if they win some money they want to buy a campervan.

 

[clewless]

A land owner can take you to civil court damage or no damage, but once you have caused damage it becomes a criminal case.

I am no legal expert, but my understanding is that the landowner can't take you to court unless damage is caused. If no damage, how can anyone sue and how do you put a monetary value on no damage caused. If you did accidently, say, break a gate by climbing over it; then this is not a criminal offence. However, deliberately smashing and destroying the gate could be classed as a criminal offence. But the whole point of this thread was not to discuss the finer points of the present Trespass law, but the possibility of us all being caught and criminalised in a "blunderbuss" law bought in to stop the very real problems that travellers cause to land owners.

 

[colinm]

I am no legal expert, but my understanding is that the landowner can't take you to court unless damage is caused. If no damage, how can anyone sue and how do you put a monetary value on no damage caused. If you did accidently, say, break a gate by climbing over it; then this is not a criminal offence. However, deliberately smashing and destroying the gate could be classed as a criminal offence. But the whole point of this thread was not to discuss the finer points of the present Trespass law, but the possibility of us all being caught and criminalised in a "blunderbuss" law bought in to stop the very real problems that travellers cause to land owners.

Well I do know quite a lot about the law surrounding trespass, but it's fairly easy to check, take this from Wiki.

Trespass to land involves the "unjustifiable interference with land which is in the immediate and exclusive possession of another";[6] it is both a tort and, in certain circumstances, a crime under the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994. It is not necessary to prove that harm was suffered to bring a claim, and is instead actionable per se. While most trespasses to land are intentional, the courts have decided that it could also be committed negligently. Accidental trespass also incurs liability.

 

[trevskoda]

No one ever taken to court here.maybe irish law not the same.

 

[colinm]

No one ever taken to court here.maybe irish law not the same.

Many laws are different over there, but it would not surprise me if there have been many cases which you might not recognise as trespass, take someone deciding to use 'that bit of ground beyond the garden' for their own purposes, in England the most likely way to stop it would be by use of trespass laws.

 

[clewless]

Well I do know quite a lot about the law surrounding trespass, but it's fairly easy to check, take this from Wiki.

Ok, I stand corrected. But the whole point of this thread was the possible new law. As wild campers, I hope none of us venture onto private landowners land to camp or pass through, but if this new law goes ahead, wild camping could be criminalised even if you stayed overnight in a layby.