Colin Needs Advice From You Experts............

[Full Member]

.............But you knew that already.

I'm in the Netherlands and the gas supply has pretty much failed. The symptoms are noticed on the cooker. When first turning on the hob the flame is normal for a few seconds then dies away to a shadow of it's former self. This happens on all three of the gas hobs so I guess the problem isn't associated with the control knobs. I have a refillable Gas-it system and both bottles are full. Lest the gauges were kidding me I've double checked by refilling the bottles at an lpg station and only got about one litre into the 24 litre system.
The gas supply will just about keep one hob going on a VERY low power or alternatively the fridge (which needs only a very small gas flow rate).
So my question is where to start looking for the fault? It could be a partial gas pipe blockage or (I'm guessing) a faulty Truma gas regulator. The gas regulator is most likely the original so is about 12 years old. My dilemma is that I've no idea of the symptoms of a failed gas pressure regulator. Do they typically fail in the manner I've described?
Your comments would be appreciated. I'll tackle the problem back in the UK when I return next week but would like to start planning beforehand so that I can have a regulator waiting for me if that is the route I should take.
I'm REALLY hoping I haven't picked up contamination from an lpg pump but will find out when I remove and look inside the pigtails.

Wild camping is forbidden in the Netherlands so we're staying on campsites and powering everything on electricity.

Colin ������

 

[RichardHelen262]

Sounds like the regulator, shame it wasn’t a day earlier as I have a new spare with me but just waiting to board the Euro tunnel

 

[QFour]

Make sure your regulator is higher than the top of the tanks. If all the burners are playing up its not the controls it certainly sounds like a regulator problem. If you are on EHU you will not know if the fridge is working on gas or not.

 

[RoaminRog]

Good Luck Colin. I would change the regulator and see how you get on. You may be able to buy one 'off the shelf' wherever you are at the moment, any Camping Store should have one, just make sure its for Propane and not Butane. ie 30mb
May be too late for you but dont forget that we are soon to get a discount from Leisureshopdirect.com

 

[SafariMul]

Can't help on gas front but ...

Campsites over there are bloomin' expensive. Do you have the Camperstops book for the aires ?

If not give us a shout where you are / going and I'll have a quick look for you :goodluck:

HTH a little.

Chrz Mul.

 

[Pauljenny]

Do you have inline filters, to remove auto gas lubricants.
They need emptying, from time to time.
A pig of a job.
Good luck.

 

[Channa]

Truma regulators are reknowned for their awkwardness ,,,,30 mbar is the correct standard however to get out of jail a 37 mbar reg widely available will sort you out ...just a case of swapping or bypassing the existing reg if you are on propane if you are on butane 28 mbar will do the trick

Channa

 

[Full Member]

Wow! So much Help ............

.......so promptly! Thanks guys. What a great community.
Apologies for me not being so prompt but the interwebby thingy is a bit hit and miss at the moment.

Helen262 - the possible loan of a gas regulator is a very kind and generous thought. Thanks for that.

Charlie - I've tried the heater but, as you anticipated, that won't fire up so it really is pointing to a failed gas regulator. I'd ideally like to fit a Truma gas regulator simply so that I don't have to play with the existing pipework
Unfortunately my current regulator has the pipe fittings on the axis of the regulator and the newer Truma regulators effectively have an elbow on the inlet side. I've included a photo at the end of this post to show what I currently have. This means that I'll probably go for the Gaslow 'caravan' regulator (part number 01-1682 W20 or 01-1683 W20 with test point on their website depending on whether the regulator is to fit 8mm or 10mm copper tube). My current Truma regulator has a test point AND valve (see photo). Is the shut off valve a requirement? There are shut off valves further down the pipework for each of the heater, cooker and 'fridge.

QFour - thanks for your advice but the locker is very restricted in height. If I can change things I will!

RoamingRog, Hairydog and Channa - thanks for your input. I'll definitely be going for a 30mb regulator.

Mul - thanks for your offer but I have Camperstops and ACSI etc etc. We're paying between 20€ and 27€ with showers and electricity included.

Paul - I don't have room for online filters. In any case I spend most of my free time emptying the smug filters you insisted I fitted.

Once again, thanks folks. I really appreciate your input.

Colin

 

[Channa]

.......so promptly! Thanks guys. What a great community.
Apologies for me not being so prompt but the interwebby thingy is a bit hit and miss at the moment.

Helen262 - the possible loan of a gas regulator is a very kind and generous thought. Thanks for that.

Charlie - I've tried the heater but, as you anticipated, that won't fire up so it really is pointing to a failed gas regulator. I'd ideally like to fit a Truma gas regulator simply so that I don't have to play with the existing pipework
Unfortunately my current regulator has the pipe fittings on the axis of the regulator and the newer Truma regulators effectively have an elbow on the inlet side. I've included a photo at the end of this post to show what I currently have. This means that I'll probably go for the Gaslow 'caravan' regulator (part number 01-1682 W20 or 01-1683 W20 with test point on their website depending on whether the regulator is to fit 8mm or 10mm copper tube). My current Truma regulator has a test point AND valve (see photo). Is the shut off valve a requirement? There are shut off valves further down the pipework for each of the heater, cooker and 'fridge.

QFour - thanks for your advice but the locker is very restricted in height. If I can change things I will!

RoamingRog, Hairydog and Channa - thanks for your input. I'll definitely be going for a 30mb regulator.

Mul - thanks for your offer but I have Camperstops and ACSI etc etc. We're paying between 20€ and 27€ with showers and electricity included.

Paul - I don't have room for online filters. In any case I spend most of my free time emptying the smug filters you insisted I fitted.

Once again, thanks folks. I really appreciate your input.

Colin

View attachment 62818

No for legislation purposes the valve on the bottle counts as the Emergency control valve

Channa

 

[korky]

Don't bother with another Truma reg. Much better with a Clesse,Cavagna or the Gasit one if it will fit your pipework.

Korky.

 

[Pauljenny]

Paul - I don't have room for online filters. In any case I spend most of my free time emptying the smug filters you insisted I fitted.

Once again, thanks folks. I really appreciate your input.

Colin

View attachment 62818[/QUOTE]

Touché, Colin.
If it's not the regulator, consider that there could be a waxing up of the burner jets, due to the gunge that they put into the gas, to make the engine run better. And the stuff they put in to make the gas smell, to detect leaks.
Is your fridge working OK ?

 

[Deleted member 62288]

stinky oil in the pipes and regulator

I used to get occasional issues such as this when I owned a Damon Daybreak.
The marshal 2x stage regulator used to get blocked with foul smelling oil.
This was especially bad after 6 months of Spanish gas.

The only cure was to remove the regulator and drain it off, I was always surprised at the volume of oil that drained out.
One section of gas pipe was lower than the bottle and was always filled with oil, this also needed to be drained off.

The oil in question, if spilled on clothing or skin, resulted in a really bad smell of "gas leaks".
I had to ditch a pair of jeans that I had spilled this stuff on, the smell wouldn't wash out.

Once the oil was drained, I was good to go for maybe another year.

Perhaps the Spanish and UK LPG blends are different as I never seemed to have this problem with UK Calor.

james

 

[Channa]

The oily gunge is called heavy ends and is taken very seriously by the industry, I am not aware of them actually adding any lubricant to help engine performance but they certainly add a stench agent.
Some bedtime reading
http://www.adeptscience.net/Presentations/061020 gtc pres-decont.pdf

Indeed which it is why it is worth getting into the habit of filling bottles to work on weight not volume.

LPG is a by product of the oil refining process and the liquid can partially revert to its oil like state, As Charlie mentioned earlier, it is the reason why the regulator is placed higher than the pigtails to reduce the risk of "slugging" albeit filters are required on Truma regulators which fail with alarming regularity I prefer Clesse and had few issues

LPG is odourless so they add a stanching agent normally mercaptan which when burnt has no odour but in the gas gives the smell,It is extremely pungent and the smallest amount can be smelt , I have known on static sites someone change a bottle and a neighbour later in the day thinking they have a leak

Channa

 

[Full Member]

Thanks One And...........

.......All for all the technical input on this thread. You're a great bunch.
I've just ordered a Gaslow 30mb bulkhead gas regulator and separate 10mm o.d. outlet with test point which will allow me to connect into the existing pipework. It should be waiting for me when I get home later this week.
I went for this arrangement so that I have components which are long overall and will be a close match to the length of the Truma fitting that they replace and also so that next time (!) I have to play with the regulator I'll be able to fit pretty much any regulator that is to hand. The Cleese regulator has an integral test point and 10mm pipe fitting and looks to be quite short overall.
I'll let you know how things go.

Colin

 

[wints]

Just a small input to this post....I have a similar set up in the gas locker as you, but a different problem...I think it may be the regulator is 'over-gassing'. The symptoms are 1. a higher flame at the cooker rings with more 'redness' at the tips, and 2. a distinct 'roar' from the fridge jet, with an accompanying smell. Anyone experienced similar ??

I've got a spare (bought new 2 yrs ago) 30 mb reg which I'll fit when I solve another problem....1 of my 2 11kg Gas-It bottles will not switch off at the main gas on/off valve wheel...which means I've got to empty that bottle before I can remove and swap out the reg.

regards
Allen

 

[wints]

Why not just carry out a proper gas test rather than guessing, if you can't turn the gas off your system is actually unsafe and wants sorting not waiting until you get around to it , if you had that problem on your house the gas company has to attend within 2 hours.

Woh there...you tell me how to turn the system off....the wheel valve is locked on...I can't disconnect that bottle until the gas in it runs out...then I'll disconnect, remove it, and investigate further.

If you have any info on the suspected 'over pressure' of the regulator then I'd be glad of it.

Allen

 

[Channa]

Woh there...you tell me how to turn the system off....the wheel valve is locked on...I can't disconnect that bottle until the gas in it runs out...then I'll disconnect, remove it, and investigate further.

If you have any info on the suspected 'over pressure' of the regulator then I'd be glad of it.

Allen

Charlie is right an engineer wouldn't sign the system off as safe unless you have a separate isolation valve.

re over pressure one of two things the regulator is letting more gas through than it should dependent on the regulator there are prescribed limits. Secondly is it a new/ fresh bottle? Occasionally even with Calor you can get one overfilled that plays havoc with flame picture however the tell tale is the flame hovers rather than is particularly higher than normal, liquid gas gets in the pipework expands and gasses giving more than is required if that makes sense

Channa

A gas man will test it if it is out of tolerance it will require a new one

 

[Full Member]

Charlie is right an engineer wouldn't sign the system off as safe unless you have a separate isolation valve.

re over pressure one of two things the regulator is letting more gas through than it should dependent on the regulator there are prescribed limits. Secondly is it a new/ fresh bottle? Occasionally even with Calor you can get one overfilled that plays havoc with flame picture however the tell tale is the flame hovers rather than is particularly higher than normal, liquid gas gets in the pipework expands and gasses giving more than is required if that makes sense

Channa

A gas man will test it if it is out of tolerance it will require a new one

I'm confused. At post #12 it was mentioned that the gas bottle shut off valve is accepted as the emergency shut off valve for the gas system. Is that different to a separate isolation valve?

Colin ������

 

[Channa]

I'm confused. At post #12 it was mentioned that the gas bottle shut off valve is accepted as the emergency shut off valve for the gas system. Is that different to a separate isolation valve?

Colin ������

Hi Colin

Wints mentioned he cant switch is gas off i.e a defective bottle valve therefore would fail a gas test . Some vans not all have a separate isolation valve normally yellow

Hope that makes sense, where vans don't have a separate isolation valve which is not a requirement but an extra the tap on the bottle for LPG regs acts as the ECV Wints is stuck so hence no ECV

Channa

 

[Full Member]

Hi Colin

Wints mentioned he cant switch is gas off i.e a defective bottle valve therefore would fail a gas test . Some vans not all have a separate isolation valve normally yellow

Hope that makes sense, where vans don't have a separate isolation valve which is not a requirement but an extra the tap on the bottle for LPG regs acts as the ECV Wints is stuck so hence no ECV

Channa

Thanks Channa. I was more than a little worried there. My present (detective) Truma gas regulator has a built in test point and downstream of that a built in (yellow) shut off valve. Based on the previous posts in this thread I'm planning on changing to a Gaslow regulator and a separate test point with no yellow isolation valve in the gas locker. Each gas appliance (cooker and oven, 'fridge, heater) has it's own individual shut off valve within the habitation area.
I have Gasit refillable bottles with the usual shut off valve on top of each.
Will I be compliant with the appropriate regulations as far as you are aware?

Colin ������