Breathalyser kit in van for france

[Deleted member 12539]

I was trawling through the laws of driving through France when I came across this statement:

"From July 1st 2012 it is compulsory to carry a breathalyser kit in the car. Two kits per car are advised. 15 euro fines for non-compliance will be levied from November 1st 2012".

I was not aware of this, and wondered if others are!
Can we get them in this country?

 

[Firefox]

http://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forums/general-chat/16217-france-breathalyser.html

And various other threads give links. You can buy them off ebay or at various other places. I think someone also mentioned they were selling them on the ferries.

 

[Neckender]

Don't buy them in this country as France has a lower alcohol reading than Britain, get them on the ferry or in France.

John.

 

[Drew]

As I understand it this has yet to be voted on by the French Government so is not law at this time. There may be a vote on it this year but I wouldn't get something "just in case". There seems to be a range of devices available but the cheapest, and I would suggest, most cost effective will be the use once and throw away type like we used to be issued with in the 70's. I don't know what the eventual legislation will look like but you would feel a bit silly with a £100 kit if you never had to use it. If all you are required to do is carry one (or 2) then the cheaper the better.

 

[veedubmatt]

as a non drinker i think this is not on why should i carry one when i dont drink what a waste of my money

 

[Drew]

In a cynical sort of way this is probably just a way of scamming money from the public, either you buy a kit and pay tax (if it becomes law you will probably have to have a government approved kit which will only be available in France) or you pay a fine every time you get stopped and don't have a kit. The French have always been good at this sort of tactic, I remember getting "fined" for too much diesel in the tank, the wrong paperwork (even though it wasn't), speeding as determined by the tachograph when they didn't even know which country I was in. With the open borders policy they have been struggling to find was to surreptitiously tax the common man and this may just be the latest offering

 

[Northerner]

In a cynical sort of way this is probably just a way of scamming money from the public, either you buy a kit and pay tax (if it becomes law you will probably have to have a government approved kit which will only be available in France) or you pay a fine every time you get stopped and don't have a kit. The French have always been good at this sort of tactic, I remember getting "fined" for too much diesel in the tank, the wrong paperwork (even though it wasn't), speeding as determined by the tachograph when they didn't even know which country I was in. With the open borders policy they have been struggling to find was to surreptitiously tax the common man and this may just be the latest offering

Sorry, but I simply can't agree and yes, it's a deeply cynical view. Were seat belts and air bags made compulsory to raise a few quid VAT on each set? And of course the kits will have to be made to a government approved specification, just like seat belts and air bags! Vast numbers of things have to be made to government specification for our own good and to stop unscrupulous manufacturers from supplying us with dangerous and defective goods.

However, your point is totally negated by the fact that these will probably end up being manufactured in somewhere like China, India or Thailand, as it's the only way that the cost will come down to a really low level that the public will accept without too much protest. This will do nothing for the French economy except push up its balance of payments deficit and is certainly nothing to do with that government raising its revenues. They may well be interested in reducing the number of accidents and the resulting costs to the medical and emergency services, but surely, that is in the interest of everyone in France?

Why can't we accept that most times government does something because it's in our interests? It's not in their interests to implement unpopular laws as they won't get re-elected, but they usually have the courage to go ahead anyway. I remember the outcry when the breathalyser was introduced into Britain: 'Nanny state, interfering in our personal freedom, what's wrong with a few drinks as long as you drive carefully? blah blah and blah!.' But who now would argue that drink-driving isn't anti-social and should be discouraged?

The French have had a laissez faire attitude to drinking for a long time and a consequent high accident rate. I see this for what it is, another tool to impress on people that drinking and driving is wrong.

Anyway, as usual the doom and gloom merchants have jumped on the band wagon and told us that we're all going to have to buy these things next week. This is a proposal which hasn't even been discussed in the French parliament and it may not even get passed.

My advice would be to wait and see before rushing out to buy a breathalyser.

 

[Drew]

Sorry Northerner that was meant to be a "tongue in cheek" comment, didn't mean it as a serious thing, although we were regularly stopped in the 70's and 80's by the French traffic and border police (and the Italians) for minor things that required a small payment to ensure swift onward travel. I don't think that goes on so much now with open borders.

I think seatbelts, air bags, crash helmets (and I remember when none of those were required, well perhaps not crash helmets) are a slightly different thing though. If a system were introduced that stopped you from being able to drive if you had been drinking, and I don't know how that would be policed, then I would perhaps be less cynical about it. However I really don't see how carrying a breath test kit in your car would actually change the habits of those who insist on drinking and driving. After all the law regarding seatbelts requires that you wear the seatbelt not just that one is fitted, similarly with crash helmets. Until this is debated and passed as law, if it ever is, I guess we can only pontificate on what the eventual situation will be.

Whether the French people will be impressed by it also remains to be seen, but I understand that the smoking ban is not adhered to in many rural and out of the way places, very much a shrug your shoulders and carry on as normal attitude which we all love the French for.

Certainly, as I posted earlier, I would not go out and buy a kit until this has become law. For one thing we have no idea what would be required in terms of accuracy.

 

[kangooroo]

as a non drinker i think this is not on why should i carry one when i dont drink what a waste of my money

As another non-drinker, I held the same view and strong objection. However, on giving it more thought I can see some potential value - not for use on myself but for use on a suspect driver in the event of an accident.

 

[Northerner]

Sorry Northerner that was meant to be a "tongue in cheek" comment, didn't mean it as a serious thing, although we were regularly stopped in the 70's and 80's by the French traffic and border police (and the Italians) for minor things that required a small payment to ensure swift onward travel. I don't think that goes on so much now with open borders.

I think seatbelts, air bags, crash helmets (and I remember when none of those were required, well perhaps not crash helmets) are a slightly different thing though. If a system were introduced that stopped you from being able to drive if you had been drinking, and I don't know how that would be policed, then I would perhaps be less cynical about it. However I really don't see how carrying a breath test kit in your car would actually change the habits of those who insist on drinking and driving. After all the law regarding seatbelts requires that you wear the seatbelt not just that one is fitted, similarly with crash helmets. Until this is debated and passed as law, if it ever is, I guess we can only pontificate on what the eventual situation will be.

Whether the French people will be impressed by it also remains to be seen, but I understand that the smoking ban is not adhered to in many rural and out of the way places, very much a shrug your shoulders and carry on as normal attitude which we all love the French for.

Certainly, as I posted earlier, I would not go out and buy a kit until this has become law. For one thing we have no idea what would be required in terms of accuracy.

As it happens I totally agree with you on the efficacy of this proposed legislation and my response to your post was only intended to be about the motives for its proposed introduction.

Let's assume that you often drink a glass or two of wine at lunchtime. So, one day, when you've only had one small glass of wine, you blow into your breathalyser, which will then show that you are under the limit. You save this one in your glove-box. A few days later you're stopped by the police who ask if you've been drinking. You tell them that you've just had one glass of wine but, to be on the safe side, you breathalysed yourself before starting the car. You then pull out the one that you used a week ago as proof.

Now there may well be a technical reason why you can't do this but from what I can gather they will be fairly inexpensive and simple devices. You could also get your spouse or friend to breath into one if they've had less to drink than you. If you're stopped, how do the police know that it isn't you who's used it?

Either way, if they suspect that you're over the limit they will test you anyway, using a proper and accurate breathalyser, so I really don't see the point of these glove-box ones.

Proposal such as this usually start with one politician who thinks that he's hit on a good idea, and very often they have, as proved by the number of laws that affect every aspect of our lives and usually enhance them. He or she then subjects it to parliament or to the respective parliamentary committee, which will decide if it should be put on the statute books. Some will and some won't. Personally, I don't think that this will and I believe that it will fall at the first hurdle, but we shall see!

So in a nutshell, I believe that this is not a cynical ploy to increase revenues, but a genuine desire to cut road deaths, but I also believe that it's deeply flawed.

 

[Northerner]

As another non-drinker, I held the same view and strong objection. However, on giving it more thought I can see some potential value - not for use on myself but for use on a suspect driver in the event of an accident.

I can see one fly in that ointment. No one involved in an accident after they've had a drink or two will willingly allow themselves to be subjected to a breath test at the insistence of the the other party. There is no law compelling them to do so and even the French aren't suggesting this.

If there is a suspicion of drink driving, then surely the police will be called and they will then insist on using a proper certified breathalyser? So whether you have a mini version in your glove-box is pretty irrelevant.

If I'd had one or two glasses of wine and had a minor prang and may well be just on the limit, and the other party pulls out his mini-breathalyser and insists that I blow into it, I'd tell him (politely of course) to bugger off. I'm not going to risk losing my licence and paying double insurance premiums for ten years unless I'm forced to by a police officer.

 

[Makzine]

Have heard about this on our last crossing but will wait for the ever fast French government to diside first if they like it.

 

[kangooroo]

I can see one fly in that ointment. No one involved in an accident after they've had a drink or two will willingly allow themselves to be subjected to a breath test at the insistence of the the other party. There is no law compelling them to do so and even the French aren't suggesting this.

If there is a suspicion of drink driving, then surely the police will be called and they will then insist on using a proper certified breathalyser? So whether you have a mini version in your glove-box is pretty irrelevant.

If I'd had one or two glasses of wine and had a minor prang and may well be just on the limit, and the other party pulls out his mini-breathalyser and insists that I blow into it, I'd tell him (politely of course) to bugger off. I'm not going to risk losing my licence and paying double insurance premiums for ten years unless I'm forced to by a police officer.

True - and a good point. I was just trying to think of a possible use for compelling a teetotaller to carry a breathalyser!

 

[DTDog]

I remember getting "fined" for too much diesel in the tank, :

How is it possible to have too much diesel in your tank ?? Surely when it's full, it's full!!

Also. If I read this right from the various posts, you have to carry 2 kits @ £100 each and I'm sure that they will only have a lifespan of around a year (£200 outlay), Or get fined £15 for not carrying them !! So in other words, you can get pulled up 13 times while on holiday and still be in profit??

 

[Northerner]

How is it possible to have too much diesel in your tank ?? Surely when it's full, it's full!!

Also. If I read this right from the various posts, you have to carry 2 kits @ £100 each and I'm sure that they will only have a lifespan of around a year (£200 outlay), Or get fined £15 for not carrying them !! So in other words, you can get pulled up 13 times while on holiday and still be in profit??

£100 is presumably for the kind of reusable ones as carried by the police. The disposable one-time-use models that we'll have to carry if this nonsense becomes law are only going to be a couple of Euro, or so I'm told!

I doubt whether the police would allow you to be fined 13 times anyway. I would imagine that, after the first three or so, they'd be looking for stiffer penalties.

 

[Deleted member 2636]

The kits are in most of the French Supermarkets and cost between €1 and €2. The law was due to come into force in April 2012 but has been put forward to November 2012 to enable all the shops to get them into stock

The expensive re-usable kits are for Les Flics

 

[Sparks]

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