Battery problems

[kimbowbill]

i know this may sound really silly question but i'm gunna ask anyway, i'm sure aj will give a good ansa

i have a elddis Monarch, 1991, should this have a splitter on it or should the leisure batteries charge up while engine running?

my problem is after a few days out wilding, the lights seem to go dimmer, they only get brighter if i hook up to 240. On the zig unit charger thing, should i turn that off whilst driving or what?

i dont understand electrics at all so please, any replys simple as poss,

i have got two leisure, the engine battery is always ok, i have tested with amp meter and they read 12.8 on both even after running engine for a while, i am totally confused.com

Thanks

J

 

[maingate]

They should read higher than that if fully charged. How old are they and do you regularly discharge them below 11 volts?

When your engine is running, you should be getting a higher reading so put a multimeter across the posts (on DC volts) and read the voltage. Set the multimeter to amps (in sreies) and see how many amps are present.

If you do not have a meter, I am sure you know somebody who does. We can give general advice but really, somebody with a little know how needs to look at it.

Fully charged, they should read a minimum of 13 volts and while being charged they should be taking amps in double figures at first then less as nearing full charge.

 

[lenny]

i know this may sound really silly question but i'm gunna ask anyway, i'm sure aj will give a good ansa

i have a elddis Monarch, 1991, should this have a splitter on it or should the leisure batteries charge up while engine running?

my problem is after a few days out wilding, the lights seem to go dimmer, they only get brighter if i hook up to 240. On the zig unit charger thing, should i turn that off whilst driving or what?

i dont understand electrics at all so please, any replys simple as poss,

i have got two leisure, the engine battery is always ok, i have tested with amp meter and they read 12.8 on both even after running engine for a while, i am totally confused.com

Thanks

J

Hiya Kimbo, not a silly question at all, the next time your lights go dim just start up the engine and see if the lights brighten up, if they do then this tells you that they are getting a charge whist running, as Maingate says, the leisure batteries could be suspect.
Keep us informed

PS On your Zig thingy it should have two battery settings (Caravan / engine), ensure the switch is in the caravan mode whilst driving and wilding.

 

[ajs]

i know this may sound really silly question but i'm gunna ask anyway, i'm sure aj will give a good ansa


J

sugerplum. .. when it comes to anything teknobable-electronicmechanical...
... i go and have a lie down...

regards
aj

i know not my fiddlers elbow from my aunt fanny

 

[Channa]

i know this may sound really silly question but i'm gunna ask anyway, i'm sure aj will give a good ansa

i have a elddis Monarch, 1991, should this have a splitter on it or should the leisure batteries charge up while engine running?

my problem is after a few days out wilding, the lights seem to go dimmer, they only get brighter if i hook up to 240. On the zig unit charger thing, should i turn that off whilst driving or what?

i dont understand electrics at all so please, any replys simple as poss,

i have got two leisure, the engine battery is always ok, i have tested with amp meter and they read 12.8 on both even after running engine for a while, i am totally confused.com

Thanks

J

The batteries should charge when the engine is running, when the engine is switched off the they should isolate themselves and provide you with juice.

As Maingate suggested, If when the lights dim and you start the engine and things brighten that suggests the batteries are charging , but perhaps not to the extent they should.

One reason could be the batteries are on their way out, But if you are only travelling a short distance between camping stops, and you are running the fridge on battery setting.etc..you are not allowing sufficient time for the batteries to fully charge from the engine.

FWIW this is the reason I occasionally visit a campsite and charge up the batteries via a mains supply.

No idea about zig units

Channa

 

[The Grand Wanderer]

Leccky

i know this may sound really silly question but i'm gunna ask anyway, i'm sure aj will give a good ansa

i have a elddis Monarch, 1991, should this have a splitter on it or should the leisure batteries charge up while engine running?

my problem is after a few days out wilding, the lights seem to go dimmer, they only get brighter if i hook up to 240. On the zig unit charger thing, should i turn that off whilst driving or what?

i dont understand electrics at all so please, any replys simple as poss,

i have got two leisure, the engine battery is always ok, i have tested with amp meter and they read 12.8 on both even after running engine for a while, i am totally confused.com

Thanks

J

Hi,
Lets start with basics.
Zig is a control panel/ box that allows the Leisure battery/ies to be charged whilst your van is connected to the Mains (240 volts a/c) via an Electric Hook Up Cable. Thus it does nothing when not being fed mains electricity.
Your Leisure Battre/ies should be being charged when your van engine is running. This is achieved via a Split Charge Relay which kicks in automatically when the engine is started. It is however controled by an in-line fuse so if blowen will not allow power to flow to the Leisure Battery/ies.
To check if split charger is working a Multimeter is required (No more than a fiver brand new from any diy shop). Set meter on 20 Volts DC Place red probe on the Positive (+) pole of your Leisure battery and the black probe on the Negative (-) one. Make a note of the voltage. Next start the engine and repeat test, again noting reading. If relay ok second reading will be higher than the first one.
The lenght of time you can go without recharging Leisure battery/ies is directly related to the number of appliances switched on, how much power they use and how long for. Even the most canny of folk have to keep a careful eye on their usage.
Finally the age of your Leisure Battery/ies does have a bearing on how much charge they will hold. Like everything they do require some maintainance and sometimes become too old to be of any practical use. There should be a lable on each battery showing when they were first fitted. They need to be kept clean the treminals should be free of any corrosion. If they are of the lead acid type and have little caps on the top of the battery, they may require topping up with distilled water which must cover the top of the plates inside.
Hope this helps,
Wanderer

 

[kimbowbill]

sugerplum. .. when it comes to anything teknobable-electronicmechanical...
... i go and have a lie down...

regards
aj

i know not my fiddlers elbow from my aunt fanny

i knew i could rely on you,

 

[kimbowbill]

Hi,
Lets start with basics.
Zig is a control panel/ box that allows the Leisure battery/ies to be charged whilst your van is connected to the Mains (240 volts a/c) via an Electric Hook Up Cable. Thus it does nothing when not being fed mains electricity.
Your Leisure Battre/ies should be being charged when your van engine is running. This is achieved via a Split Charge Relay which kicks in automatically when the engine is started. It is however controled by an in-line fuse so if blowen will not allow power to flow to the Leisure Battery/ies.
To check if split charger is working a Multimeter is required (No more than a fiver brand new from any diy shop). Set meter on 20 Volts DC Place red probe on the Positive (+) pole of your Leisure battery and the black probe on the Negative (-) one. Make a note of the voltage. Next start the engine and repeat test, again noting reading. If relay ok second reading will be higher than the first one.
The lenght of time you can go without recharging Leisure battery/ies is directly related to the number of appliances switched on, how much power they use and how long for. Even the most canny of folk have to keep a careful eye on their usage.
Finally the age of your Leisure Battery/ies does have a bearing on how much charge they will hold. Like everything they do require some maintainance and sometimes become too old to be of any practical use. There should be a lable on each battery showing when they were first fitted. They need to be kept clean the treminals should be free of any corrosion. If they are of the lead acid type and have little caps on the top of the battery, they may require topping up with distilled water which must cover the top of the plates inside.
Hope this helps,
Wanderer

Thank you, this is very helpul, the batteries are quite new and i do maintain them, i dont use my fridge, only the lights, when i was in scotland for 3 weeks wilding i never used 240, the batteries stayed charged, i had to have a new clutch fitted, since then they dont seem to charge properly, i know it sounds daft but i thought something could have been disturbed just a thought, thank you for your simple explination, i'm sure most of us ordinary peeps can understand that

Jenny

 

[Channa]

Thank you, this is very helpul, the batteries are quite new and i do maintain them, i dont use my fridge, only the lights, when i was in scotland for 3 weeks wilding i never used 240, the batteries stayed charged, i had to have a new clutch fitted, since then they dont seem to charge properly, i know it sounds daft but i thought something could have been disturbed just a thought, thank you for your simple explination, i'm sure most of us ordinary peeps can understand that

Jenny

TBH Jenny I can't think of any logical reason why a clutch change would upset your charging. Mechanically totally unrelated. A coincidence I think.

TBH if you are seeing a deteoration in your batteries performance perhaps more down to making them work for a living wildcamping.

When you have a spare half hour assuming they are not sealed check the levels and top up with distilled water if required. It may be something as simple that you have had them working for a living that is causing the problem.

Also has I mentioned earlier, Short journeys , running the fridge on battery, running water pumps and internal lights, It may well be the case you are using more battery power than your engine is putting back into them.

but all part of the fun eh ?

Channa

 

[Deleted member 967]

Thank you, this is very helpul, the batteries are quite new and i do maintain them, i dont use my fridge, only the lights, when i was in scotland for 3 weeks wilding i never used 240, the batteries stayed charged, i had to have a new clutch fitted, since then they dont seem to charge properly, i know it sounds daft but i thought something could have been disturbed just a thought, thank you for your simple explination, i'm sure most of us ordinary peeps can understand that

Jenny

Could they have disturbed the earth from the leisure batteries when replacing the clutch and not put it back? (only earthing the main battery allowing starting and charging of that battery)

Try connecting both batteries earths together and see if you get a charge then. If so then check for loose heavy wires near the clutch housing.

 

[Kontiki]

If your batteries were ok & after having the new clutch fitted you are having problems it seems likely that something has been disturbed or disconnected. As others have said easiest way is buy a cheap multi meter & check the voltage of the batteries with & without the engine running. There might be a slight delay as the engine battery should start charging before the leisure batteries. You could also check the engine battery the same way to see that the alternator is working ok. It could also be the split relay charger is not working but it is best to check the simple things. Another thing to look for is any scotch lock type connectors especially in the engine bay or outside the vehicle. They can corrode & cause problems.

Heres one site that has some pictures explaining about the charging LEISURE BATTERY

 

[The Grand Wanderer]

Thank you, this is very helpul, the batteries are quite new and i do maintain them, i dont use my fridge, only the lights, when i was in scotland for 3 weeks wilding i never used 240, the batteries stayed charged, i had to have a new clutch fitted, since then they dont seem to charge properly, i know it sounds daft but i thought something could have been disturbed just a thought, thank you for your simple explination, i'm sure most of us ordinary peeps can understand that

Jenny

Hi Jenny,
There seems little doubt that a wire has been disturbed.
As others have said the best approach is to start under the bonnet and check the wireing very carefully cleaning all connections on the way and applying a light smear of petrolium jelly P/J (Vasaline) to them as you go.
Start at the alternator tracing the wires along to the split charge relay (this is just an electro-magnetic switch that opens and closes when the alternator starts to generate electricity), check the earth connection from the relay to the van body as it needs a good earth in order to close the relay.
It is possible to check if the relay is working by removing the two thicker wires from the relay having first made a written drawing of the position and colour of all the wires. Even marking each wire first by putting different tape round them.Then remove the wire from the alternator at the relay and running a temporary wire directly from the van battery positive (Red +) terminal and just holding it against blade treminal of the relay. You should hear it clicking in and out as you touch and then let go the temporary wire. Make sure it does not touch anything but that one terminal and replace all wires as original when test complete.
Then check the larger thicker wires that carry the power from the alternator to the Leisure Battery.
Often they run from the van battery to the relay and then on to the Leisure battery. Check the earth strap from the Leisure Battery/ies to the vehicule body. Often over time these become corroded and cause resistance and eventually cease to allow current to flow properly. Put the P/J on all connections.
I am certain that if you take your time and do it in a logical fashion having carefully read and re-read this and other posts particullary the one that takes you to a photographical explanation of how these things work you will succeed in getting it working again. Keep us informed.
Regards,
Wanderer

 

[rickboy]

Great reply

Wanderer.

What a great answer to a cry for help!!!

My logic usually goes out the window with my own problems so I have printred this out to keep onboard so to speak.

Great stuff!!

Rick

 

[kimbowbill]

thanks to the Grand Wanderer, very very useful info, i will try at the weekend, i have now ascertianed (big word) that there definately is no charge coming from the engine to the leisures, by letting all the batteries go flat then going for a drive round, zilcho supply i have checked all the fuses and they are all ok, i think i might have to call upon a auto electritian if GW's advice doesnt work, can do without mi power supply

 

[rickboy]

Give it a flick

Just to add to Wanderers excellent write up.If you find the relay,try giving it a flick with your fingernail.It may be stuck and that may bring it back into action."Simples".

Rick

 

[kimbowbill]

Just to add to Wanderers excellent write up.If you find the relay,try giving it a flick with your fingernail.It may be stuck and that may bring it back into action."Simples".

Rick

thanks rickboy, will try anything, is driving me insaine

 

[kimbowbill]

TBH Jenny I can't think of any logical reason why a clutch change would upset your charging. Mechanically totally unrelated. A coincidence I think.

TBH if you are seeing a deteoration in your batteries performance perhaps more down to making them work for a living wildcamping.

When you have a spare half hour assuming they are not sealed check the levels and top up with distilled water if required. It may be something as simple that you have had them working for a living that is causing the problem.

Also has I mentioned earlier, Short journeys , running the fridge on battery, running water pumps and internal lights, It may well be the case you are using more battery power than your engine is putting back into them.

but all part of the fun eh ?

Channa

Thanks C, i have done all you mentioned but at the weekend i used the batteries til they were reading 7.8, then went to chesterfield and back and when i got back they read exactly the same so there is definately no charge getting from my engine battery, it is all part of the fun i guess and gives us something to chat about dunnit xx

 

[Channa]

This wont help but as lost as you are !!!

Others posted after me an earth may have been disturbed, Whilst my thoughts were time of year dark nights etc you were making the batteries work for a living, and cold waether always seeks to expose a duff battery.

Common sense tells me if the batteries arent charging on a run there is a problem with the charger or a bad earth as previously mentioned. The circuit has been corrupted in some way

Sure an electically minded chap/ chapess will be along to assist you on your next move.

Good luck

Channa

BTW were you in Scarborough at the weekend?
I could have swore I saw a monarch in the harbour area

 

[kimbowbill]

This wont help but as lost as you are !!!

Others posted after me an earth may have been disturbed, Whilst my thoughts were time of year dark nights etc you were making the batteries work for a living, and cold waether always seeks to expose a duff battery.

Common sense tells me if the batteries arent charging on a run there is a problem with the charger or a bad earth as previously mentioned. The circuit has been corrupted in some way

Sure an electically minded chap/ chapess will be along to assist you on your next move.

Good luck

Channa

BTW were you in Scarborough at the weekend?
I could have swore I saw a monarch in the harbour area

Yeah i'm sure they will, ad some good advice so far, al sort it at the weekend, nope wasni me, wish it wo, not been for ages, love that place xx

 

[rickboy]

Battery charge

The alternator wont charge the batteries properly if they are that low and may damage itself trying to.It will sense the need for max amps but at that low starting voltage you are asking for expensive trouble.
Please,please charge the leisure battery separatly and slowly.Dont heed any other opinion .Once they are charged you can carry out you tests.You can always drain the lesure battery a little by putting on a lights when testing.