Battery charger died in Honflour I think

[GregM]

We have just got back from our first time abroad in the 'van, and this was also our first time using Aires and overall it all went well apart from while stopping on the Aire in Honflour.

We connected the 'van hookup and check that the polarity was correct (had switch over lead etc) and it was, no switch over lead needed etc. Our son plugged his PSP in for charging and off we went into Honflour for a while.

Later in the evening, for some strange reason I thought I would check the polarity again, this time to my horror only one of the 3 lights on the polarity checker was lit. Without checking closely which one was lit I assumed it was highlighting reverse polarity. I was confused as to why this would have changed but not to worry I have a switch over lead which I put in line. Oh no, still the same light was alight. OK must be dodgy 'checker' I thought, lets check the sons PSP to make sure that had charged. Oh No, it hadn't charged. I stupidly thought OK check my phone charger, the 'charging' screen appeared and then disappeared and the phone wouldn't charge.

OK, plug the 'checker' back in and took a closer look, it was the earth and live that was reversed. This had blown our sons PSP charger and as we found out later my phone charger as well. I then checked the hook up points and found some nice camper had decided to move my lead to another socket and plug their van in the socket I had originally used. As soon as I switched them back over all three lights lit up again on the checker.

It then became clear that as well as the PSP and phone chargers the 'van leisure battery charger isn't working either. This was to be a royal pain in the rear, we could use the sockets, the electric water heater and the fridge both still work one 230volt but all the lights, water pump etc are all 12 volt, so we had to watch what we used.

So there is the back ground, sorry it's long winded but now the questions:

1. Does this mean the charger is well and truly fried or is it recoverable?

2. There appear to be just 2 wires coming out of the charger that connect to a 'connector' which in turn connects to a wiring loom, are all chargers the same, ie is it a simple plug and play with a new charger?

Thanks

 

[Deleted member 3011]

Can't be sure without having a look in person, but if your charger has only a two wire connection, then the situation you describe shouldn't cause any damage no matter which way around the van supply is - it will either work or it will not work, but not be damaged. (same can't be said about safety of people using the van though.


Having an outlet with earth and Active reversed will cause a very dangerous situation in some circumstances, but again, it depends on whether the van or the outlet pedestal is equipped with any sort of earth leakage system.

It really is a situation that needs checking by a licensed electrician - both to assess your system, and to check the safety of the outlet, but assuming this is not going to happen, first thing you would need to do is find a guaranteed correctly-wired, working outlet and follow through checking the various sections of the van wiring installation to find out what the problem is.

One of those "If you have to ask, leave it alone" situations perhaps

 

[GregM]

Can't be sure without having a look in person, but if your charger has only a two wire connection, then the situation you describe shouldn't cause any damage no matter which way around the van supply is - it will either work or it will not work, but not be damaged. (same can't be said about safety of people using the van though.

OK I have had a closer look, and took the picture below, as you can see I missed the fact there is a BIG (230?) lead going to it.

Yes, the safety issue did concern me, I made a point of checking the wiring is correct according to the 'polarity checker' and the fact someone has switched it to a different socket later annoyed me but we learnt the lesson to check regularly.

It really is a situation that needs checking by a licensed electrician - both to assess your system, and to check the safety of the outlet, but assuming this is not going to happen, first thing you would need to do is find a guaranteed correctly-wired, working outlet and follow through checking the various sections of the van wiring installation to find out what the problem is.

One of those "If you have to ask, leave it alone" situations perhaps

We are home and I have plugged the hookup in to the house sockets. I don't have a multimeter to hand to check across the batteries at the moment, will get one later, but the clues that pointed to the charger were :

1. Normally when plugged in to mains, the 'van power meter sits at around 14v, and then drops when disconnected. This is not happening.

2. If on hookup, the water pump (12v) works without effect on anything else, if we are off hookup then the lights dim slightly while the pump is in use. This is happening now even when on hook up.

You are right about asking a professional, but was hoping that asking would give me at least an idea of what to do.

Thankks

 

[Deleted member 3011]

OK so that changes things a little.
\
Are ANY of the mains outlets or any appliances inside the van working?


Does your van have a mains circuit breaker anywhere - or an earth leakage circuit breaker - or any mains fuses. Assume that there will be one or other form of protection somewhere hidden away in a cupboard.

Does the Battery charger have a fused plug on it? If it is plugged in, then is there power to the socket that it is plugged into?

Can check some of these things out by using a known working house appliance - bedside lamp or mains drill.

 

[GregM]

OK so that changes things a little.

Are ANY of the mains outlets or any appliances inside the van working?

The fridge and water heater still work on 230 when on hook up without a problem. I can also plug any item into the 240 sockets and they work fine.

Does your van have a mains circuit breaker anywhere - or an earth leakage circuit breaker - or any mains fuses. Assume that there will be one or other form of protection somewhere hidden away in a cupboard.

Yes, there is the following unit hidden in the wardrobe :

The left switch is marked up as being for fridge, water heater, charger and lights (although lights are 12v), the next switch is for fire, sockets and wet locker(?) then there is the RCB tester and main isolation switch.
There is also a bank of fuses close to the charger and batteries etc but there does not appear to be one for the charger.

Does the Battery charger have a fused plug on it? If it is plugged in, then is there power to the socket that it is plugged into?

Can check some of these things out by using a known working house appliance - bedside lamp or mains drill.

No, the charger is not one with a fused plug, the black cable has a connector like

which is in turn connected to another similar black cable, this then goes into the base of the wardrobe. (inaccessable)

The two smaller wires coming from the charger are connected to the wire loom like

Thanks

Greg

 

[Deleted member 3011]

The two smaller wires from the charger are the 12V output. The bank of fuses near the charger are probably for the 12V circuits, especially if they look like the ones in a car fuse box.

Hmmmm. A meter would be handy to check the voltage coming out of that socket the thick black cable is plugged into.

I guess if the other items on that LHS circuit breaker are working, then it is likely that the battery charger is actually being fed with 240V. Pity the charger didn't have a power on light

I would unplug that connector (unplug shore power first) and drag the battery charger out where you can get a look at it and see if there are any fuses mounted on the case that have blown.
If not, and you are happy do do it, unplug the 12V as well and take the cover off and see if there are any internal fuses.

Apart from that, there may not be much else you can do without a multimeter and some basic knowledge.

Be very careful not to short out the 12V cables. Looks as if it connects to the loom with a plug and socket similar to the one for the mains input.

 

[GregM]

OK got hold of a meter today so will check it out some more tomorrow. Thanks for your help so far Tony Lee.

 

[GregM]

There is a 12v fuse inline on the cables coming out of the charger, it is just past the 'connector' and the fuse has no breaks.

I put a meter across the battery terminals and was getting just over 12v, I started the 'van engine and put the meter back across and the reading went up to around 13v.

I then turned of the engine and plugged in the hook up and the needle stayed at the 12v level, it did not move at all from the original reading.

We off to Wembley on Saturday in the 'van so am not going to do anything until after then, would had to mess up the wiring, leaving us with no power for the day.

I think I will take it to one of the local caravan repair companies rather than mess myself, hate to think what they will charge.

Thanks for your help

Greg

 

[Canalsman]

Where do you live Greg?

Maybe someone could provide advice and help ...

 

[maingate]

If your 240 volt sockets are still working then just buy a cheap battery charger, plug it in and clip the 12 volt leads on to your battery (or batteries).

 

[GregM]

Where do you live Greg?

Maybe someone could provide advice and help ...

I'm in North Nottinghamshire, Near J27/28 of M1, I do know of a couple of local 'caravan doctors' but not dealt with any of them.

If your 240 volt sockets are still working then just buy a cheap battery charger, plug it in and clip the 12 volt leads on to your battery (or batteries).

Oh so Simple, I always look for the most complicated solutions

Thanks

 

[Canalsman]

If your 240 volt sockets are still working then just buy a cheap battery charger, plug it in and clip the 12 volt leads on to your battery (or batteries).

However, as a permanent solution it would be better to buy a more sophisticated charger (e.g. CTEK) and wire it in permanently in place of the broken one ...

 

[Deleted member 3011]

But you haven't yet checked whether you have 240 v supply to your charger, so buying a new battery charger may not be warranted.

 

[GregM]

But you haven't yet checked whether you have 240 v supply to your charger, so buying a new battery charger may not be warranted.

I wouldn't know how to check this Tony, this is why I thought of going to a 'caravan doctor' or is it a simple job I can do. I don't want to stick the 2 probes on the meter into a 240v supply really

Maingates solution would be an ideal interim solution if needed.

 

[GregM]

But you haven't yet checked whether you have 240 v supply to your charger, so buying a new battery charger may not be warranted.

OK there was power as far as the 'connector' in the black (230v) cable going to the charger.

I have disconnected the charger and removed it from the 'van in the hope I could take the cover off to see if there is a fuse but the cover is fixed with rivets. Not much in the way of identification marks but will google the couple of numbers I can find on in.

 

[GregM]

Reading the label it does say it's a 'Power supply top 1214' and the phone number leads me to Power Supply

Its the one on the right, but looking at the little text on the above link it doesn't mention anything about being a charger compared to the 20amp power supply on the left says it includes a 4amp battery charger. Does this mean what I have removed is not the charger?

 

[Deleted member 3011]

No, it's not a battery charger - as in 3-stage charger or even taper charger - but a fixed power supply, often called a converter - that is designed to supply all the 12V loads when you are parked up plus, being 13.7V which is around or a little above the normal battery float voltage, it will also maintain a charged battery in good condition or even slowly charge up a discharged battery.

It is pretty common system and especially for those who always just drive to a van park and hook up to mains power for the duration (so only need battery power for short periods when on the road), quite adequate - but nowadays well and truly superseded by three-stage chargers which are supposed to do a better job of keeping your battery in good condition,

The converter - which you have - does have the advantage that the vehicle 12V appliances are only subjected to the nominal rated voltage rather than well over 14V which is the case with three-stage chargers during the first two stages. Now, not a problem and certainly no reason to avoid fitting a decent charger.


Your converter should have a fuse inside, but there also comes a time when you might just want to get it fixed and get on with enjoying your lifestyle.

There are a few 15 Amp 3-stage chargers around. Just make sure it has some sort of way to set the charge cycle to suit your type of battery. Most have provision for at least "sealed" and "normal" or perhaps Gel, AGM and Flooded.

 

[GregM]

Thanks Tony

I have ordered an Amperor MV3/250 Leisure Battery Charger 3 Stage 25 Amp | eBay UK as the 12v output from the power supply was dead and thought that really as we have 220ah of battery its a good time to get something bigger anyway.

I had read somewhere that Amperor aren't a bad make so hope it does the job

Again, thanks for your time.

 

[GregM]

New charger arrived this morning, added the required 'connectors' to both 230v input and 12v output and plugged in. Problem solved.

It's switchable so we can switch it off which as it has a fan might be prefered at night as it sits under the lounge seating which is also our bed. It also had a switch for 3 stage or float, have it switched to 3 stage as this was the recommended setting in the manual.

Thanks for all the help

Greg