syldale
Guest
hi all had my 160 fiat remapped giving 26% more power and between 8-15% more fuel of to germany on tuesday 31st will post the results after 1 month touring . happy camping p.s cost£326
Byronic
Guest
So why does the van manufacturer not do this in the first place, perhaps it's because he/she knows that you don't get something for nothing, you may have more power but you may well have traded torque at lower revs and in a load carrying vehicle it's torque that is usually more desirable.
Also more power uses more fuel and more stress. If the original mapping was not well designed then you may get more mpg with a remap, but then again was the manufacturer that incompetent and conversely the aftermarket bods so knowledgeable? Perhaps so.
Slowhand
Guest
Motorhoming magazines are notorious for toeing the company line though do you not think?
Eric
Eric
MrRob
Guest
There is no single right solution to engine mapping ... manufactures and users have different requirements. Tuners are able to take advantage of the massive oversupply of air into the combustion chamber that is characteristic of modern turbo engines (diesel or petrol). Many manufacturers including Mercedes, Nissan and Mini do offer remapping ... Nissan offered a tuning box for the Navara pickup at one point.
With any tuning box or remap solution there IS more power and therefore torque right across the rev range. My current van now has enough torque for the auto box to be happy to pull top gear from 45mph where before 55 was more like it. Therefore over the course of a journey it revs lower, changes gear far less frequently and uses less fuel. I am getting 10% better MPG and I would guess 30bhp more. I travel at about the same road speeds, perhaps reaching them slightly quicker ... I doubt ware is increased by any great degree.
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syldale
Guest
b.h.p
allso the torque is increased by 77lbs so you don't need to put your feet down on the throttle as much and less changing gears so it saves fuel my friend had it done 2 years ago with no problems his power has increased and fuel up to 30m.p.g on a fiat 160
allso the torque is increased by 77lbs so you don't need to put your feet down on the throttle as much and less changing gears so it saves fuel my friend had it done 2 years ago with no problems his power has increased and fuel up to 30m.p.g on a fiat 160
Deleted member 207
Guest
Some of the engine manufacturers have been offering this type of electronic engineering for about 20 years. I think Cummins initially started it all with an engine that could deliver from about 350HP upto 500HP just by altering the electronics and some changes to turbochargers and intercoolers. Since then every man and his dog who has electronic engine controls has been upto it - makes great sense for a manufacturer if they can get effectively 10 different HP engines from one basic design just by doing a bit of programming - reduced inventory, lower unit cost of manufacture. Downside is that some of the lower HP engines are over engineered.
m30
Guest
I think you also have to take into account the knock on effect of more power on the handling and braking of the vehicle. I have an 07 new shape Ducato work van with the 120 2.3 Multijet, which I upgraded with a Diesel Bob Tuning box. Set on the highest setting which gives 25% increase in power, giving a theoretical power figure of 150 bhp, the van is an absolute rocket ship in 4th, 5th and 6th gear. It just pulls and pulls from 70mph to what ever the top speed now is.
Infact, if you floor the go pedal at around 2,000 revs in 3rd gear or above the clutch will slip !! you need to feed the power in gently.
This extra performance has an obvious knock on effect on what you could expect from the brakes and handling. I'm not saying that I drive anywhere near the limit of the brakes or suspension, but if Fiat were selling a van with 200 bhp to anyone who wanted one, what and indeed how, could they make it handle and stop well enough to keep the lawyers happy??
As for the line in the magazine about amending service intervals in relation to the increased stress on some engine parts, I wish they would elaborate. They wouldn't want to be seen to be encouraging owners to tamper with there own vehicles that they have saved up for now would they. ( more to do with not wanting to upset the manufacturers ). As for increased stress, I see it like this. I could have a non tuned engine and come to a long incline in the autoroute in southern France, and stick it in 3rd or 4th foot to the floor with anything up to 3500 revs, or I could cruise up the same hill with my tuned or chipped engine with half throttle in top gear. Which causes more stress??
Also as touched on in an earlier post, a lower power engine would be effectively over engineered. I cant imagine the 2.7 fitted to the Sprinter will be that much different from the same unit fitted to the M class, but the later will be more powerful.
Stu
Infact, if you floor the go pedal at around 2,000 revs in 3rd gear or above the clutch will slip !! you need to feed the power in gently.
This extra performance has an obvious knock on effect on what you could expect from the brakes and handling. I'm not saying that I drive anywhere near the limit of the brakes or suspension, but if Fiat were selling a van with 200 bhp to anyone who wanted one, what and indeed how, could they make it handle and stop well enough to keep the lawyers happy??
As for the line in the magazine about amending service intervals in relation to the increased stress on some engine parts, I wish they would elaborate. They wouldn't want to be seen to be encouraging owners to tamper with there own vehicles that they have saved up for now would they. ( more to do with not wanting to upset the manufacturers ). As for increased stress, I see it like this. I could have a non tuned engine and come to a long incline in the autoroute in southern France, and stick it in 3rd or 4th foot to the floor with anything up to 3500 revs, or I could cruise up the same hill with my tuned or chipped engine with half throttle in top gear. Which causes more stress??
Also as touched on in an earlier post, a lower power engine would be effectively over engineered. I cant imagine the 2.7 fitted to the Sprinter will be that much different from the same unit fitted to the M class, but the later will be more powerful.
Stu
Byronic
Guest
Permit me to ask the question then, is the engine running so much more efficiently now, or is the engine burning more fuel than the standard engine?
If either or both of these options then it gets back to my original post, why at time of manufacture (at minimal cost) does the manufacturer not include these improvements.
Slowhand
Guest
Unfotunately it is not always as simple as you would think to boost an engines power. DAF did a 530 BHP engine and many operators boosted their 430-480 Dafs up to this power. Result was blown engines, the 530 was made of a superior alloy.
Eric
Eric
syldale
Guest
b.h.p
m30 very informative your right what you are saying we are 60 years young and not boy racers before retirement my husband was h.g.v driver so with the speed limiters set at 56 mph which is the best speed for economy we allways drive about 60m.p.h we've had it do because the price of diesel is allways going to rise . the extra power will be handy up hills regarding ware on brakes etc we don't intend to abuse our m/h this is our 10th m/h our first was a hymer 2.5 c.c it would'nt pull a greasy out of bed a milkfioat past us on the motorway
m30 very informative your right what you are saying we are 60 years young and not boy racers before retirement my husband was h.g.v driver so with the speed limiters set at 56 mph which is the best speed for economy we allways drive about 60m.p.h we've had it do because the price of diesel is allways going to rise . the extra power will be handy up hills regarding ware on brakes etc we don't intend to abuse our m/h this is our 10th m/h our first was a hymer 2.5 c.c it would'nt pull a greasy out of bed a milkfioat past us on the motorway
Byronic
Guest
Until fairly recently a well known company used to turbo charge Mercedes naturally aspirated engines.They fitted aftermarket low pressure turbos. Not too many miles after conversion quite few of these engines expired,mainly due to heat/stress related problems.
I owned the workshop manuals for a few of these engine types and noted that the Mercedes factory turbo version of these engines had a number of significant differing features from the non turbo type eg lowered compression ratio, oil cooler jets to piston skirts,larger oil pump,altered engine breather system. Mercedes find this degree of modification necessary just for a modest 20% power increase.
I wonder if the chippers/remappers do something similar for their £326????
I THINK NOT
Slowhand
Guest
My point exactly.
Eric
Eric
Bernard Jones
Guest
A fool and his money
In the X250 Citroen relay van the same 2.2 litre Transit/Puma engine is available in 2 states of tune - 100bhp, and 120bhp. According to the manufacturers own figures in the official Citroen handbook, this remapping to increase power by 20% reduces the mpg figure by 11%. It also necessitates extra engineering including a dual mass flywheel to absorb the extra vibration.
Are we really gullible enough to believe that these aftermarket bods really can do wonderful things (like improving both power output and fuel consumption and without extra engineering) that the engine designers and manufacturers cannot do, and are not just saying so to line their own pockets
In the X250 Citroen relay van the same 2.2 litre Transit/Puma engine is available in 2 states of tune - 100bhp, and 120bhp. According to the manufacturers own figures in the official Citroen handbook, this remapping to increase power by 20% reduces the mpg figure by 11%. It also necessitates extra engineering including a dual mass flywheel to absorb the extra vibration.
Are we really gullible enough to believe that these aftermarket bods really can do wonderful things (like improving both power output and fuel consumption and without extra engineering) that the engine designers and manufacturers cannot do, and are not just saying so to line their own pockets
Byronic
Guest
best to leave well alone then.
My 2.8jtd is quite sufficient for me.
That just about sums it up really, with very few exceptions leave things as the manufactuer designed things. If you think/need want a significant power increase then you've bought the wrong vehicle.
syldale
Guest
re b.h.p
some people are missing the point we remapped for economy not speed my husband before retirement was h.g.v trundling along at 56 m.p.h he set's the cruise at 60m.p.h and that's fast enough for us the extra b.h.p is handy for
some people are missing the point we remapped for economy not speed my husband before retirement was h.g.v trundling along at 56 m.p.h he set's the cruise at 60m.p.h and that's fast enough for us the extra b.h.p is handy for
Byronic
Guest
So why in your post do you quote "26% more power" in the same context as "8-15% more fuel economy"?
Slowhand
Guest
I thought that the whole idea of motorhoming was for us to trundle down a road alongside a river or trundle down a mountain pass or whatever and take the time to actually experience the area and the journey rather than rushing from A to B as we have done throughout our working career
All this must have the fastest/largest/most powerful is not what it is about
If it is then it's the wrong hobby
Been there done that got the T shirt in a past life
If you have done it then why deny youngsters the pleasure? I have a van with a good turn of speed and I still enjoy gubbing white van man now and again.
Perhaps I am younger at heart than yourself.
Eric
Bernard Jones
Guest
If you have done it then why deny youngsters the pleasure? I have a van with a good turn of speed and I still enjoy gubbing white van man now and again.
Perhaps I am younger at heart than yourself.
Eric
Ah but I don't need a lot of power top do that. Along the seafront at Cleethorpes the council have put in speed humps to stop the boy racers tearing up and down. With their fragile low profile tyres, lowered suspension and side skirts they have to slow to a snail's pace to get over the speed humps without grounding their beloved hot hatchbacks. With higher ground clearance and deeper tyres for cushioning, by timing it right I can pull round and calmly overtake the boy racers on the speed humps in my clapped out old Rover Maestro Van.
vwalan
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i agree with ***** . dont use toll roads . no motorways and dont use the duall carriage way if the old road is still there. thats how we travel abroad. cant always do it. but i like visiting all the old villages how long does it take to get there ?how long have you got. look for interesting local items ,buildings parks soak up the history and culture. make some new friends. this is what m,homing is really about. no destination just a journey. (loosely).have a nice day .cheers alan