Autotrail Apache or Scout anyone got one?

[barryd]

I am particularly looking for someone who has a 2007 model or newer that has one or has had one. Im also interested in the earlier models as well 2004-6 but if possible I may go for a later one.

What I would really like is to find someone who has put a scooter and rack on one. Both seem to have good payload especially on the later models but I cannot get my head around the size of the overhang on the Apache which is on the Ducato chassis. The Scout is Alko with a much shorter overhang. The 2007 Scout claims 750kg payload and with the shorter overhang should easily accommodate a scooter and rack. The Apache 700se whilst having a good payload I worry about the long overhang and the difference it will make in the overall weight on the rear axle once you do the sums and I suspect it will effect handling much more than the Alko Chassis Scout. The handling on our Kontiki 640 with Alko chassis is not effected at all by the scooter. I want to make sure any new van I get is as good.

I am also keen to hear from anyone about all aspects of these vans. It wouldnt have been my first choice of manufacturer but its the layout we want and a decent payload.

 

[Nesting Zombie]

Don't know if this helps you to visualize but I've got a 1996 Autotrail Chieftain with Motorcycle Carrier on the back (Just taken it off & is for Sale), had a 125cc on with no trouble.
Dropbox - IMAG1339.jpg

Dropbox - IMAG1318.jpg

 

[witzend]

Hi have heard that in spec garage capacity is quite low on the autotrail and seeing scooter rack bolts to it worth seeing specs

 

[barryd]

Thanks. If I was going for a tag I would probably opt for the new shape Arapaho as I want a rear lounge. I think the earlier Arapahos were only 4500kg but the newer ones are 5000kg. Still a lot of money though for the new shaped ones, mind you so are the Scouts and Apache's.

 

[Canalsman]

I have a 2007 Dakota so I can't advise on payload and loading aspects of the models you are considering.

As regards my impressions of Auto Trail 2007 vintage - I am very pleased with my purchase, and I have had very few problems with it, and those that I have had might be expected of any motorhome through ageing.

The build quality is very good, and the Alko chassis works well. I have the 160bhp 3.0 litre power unit in the Ducato X250, and it is a pleasure to drive with plenty of torque to cope in all situations. Fuel consumption, measured brim to brim, is just under 24mpg over the past 18 months. Most of my driving is on slow rural roads with occasional motorway stretches.

The only negative is the tendency to drive train shudder in reverse, which is a well known issue with the early X250s. I try to avoid reversing up inclines as a result. If only they had fitted a lower ratio reverse gear ... bizarrely, first gear is lower, and almost too low.

 

[barryd]

Thanks for that. Yes I remember the juddergate saga. Didn't they all get sorted though?

 

[Canalsman]

The 2.3 litre engined models had a gearbox modification. The 3 litre engined ones didn't - not deemed necessary apparently ...

 

[sasquatch]

I had a Scout bought new in 2008,lovely conversion,buyouts base,it was on a 3lite chassis. Clutch burnt out @200 miles,every time I took it out something went wrong. Most memorable event was the entire dashboard lighting up like Blackpool eliminations whilst overtaking a lorry on the M6!!!!!!

 

[barryd]

I had a Scout bought new in 2008,lovely conversion,buyouts base,it was on a 3lite chassis. Clutch burnt out @200 miles,every time I took it out something went wrong. Most memorable event was the entire dashboard lighting up like Blackpool eliminations whilst overtaking a lorry on the M6!!!!!!

Sounds a bit of a Plumb! Trouble is I guess most vans are based on the same commercial vehicle so your a bit stuffed really I guess. Our Peugeot Boxer 2.5td Kontiki has been a blinder though. Always daft things breaking on it but it keeps going.

These are the ones I found on ebay this morning that caught my eye. Two Apaches and two Scouts. One has roof mounted air con though which put me off as Ill never use it and it will be heavy. Wonder if they are easy to remove.

Autotrail Apache 700SE | eBay

AUTO-TRAIL APACHE SE 2007 | eBay

Auto-Trail Scout Six Berth, Rear Lounge MANUAL 2008

AutoTrail Scout Motorhome - U shaped Lounge - 6 berth - 3.0L Diesel | eBay

 

[Nesting Zombie]

Nope,,Not getting any of those links !.

 

[barryd]

Oh Bugger! Sorry

Try them now. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[Canalsman]

Sounds a bit of a Plumb! Trouble is I guess most vans are based on the same commercial vehicle so your a bit stuffed really I guess. Our Peugeot Boxer 2.5td Kontiki has been a blinder though. Always daft things breaking on it but it keeps going.

These are the ones I found on ebay this morning that caught my eye. Two Apaches and two Scouts. One has roof mounted air con though which put me off as Ill never use it and it will be heavy. Wonder if they are easy to remove.

Autotrail Apache 700SE | eBay

AUTO-TRAIL APACHE SE 2007 | eBay

Auto-Trail Scout Six Berth, Rear Lounge MANUAL 2008

AutoTrail Scout Motorhome - U shaped Lounge - 6 berth - 3.0L Diesel | eBay

I would avoid the roof mounted aircon. I had such a unit on my previous 'van, and never used it in 5 years.

Presumably it's been fitted in place of a rooflight - give me the rooflight every time!

 

[barryd]

Thanks. I totally agree. What a waste of roof space, light and weight! I've seldom been too hot in our van and I've been to some pretty warm places. Someone on mhf suggested removing it a and selling it but I bet it's not that simple. Anyway they are just examples.

 

[phillybarbour]

I wanted an Auto Trail for our first van, but it never happened. Think they are the best British van overall. The ALKO chassis will give you more fitting options especially if you look at the German manufacturers. At the recent Düsseldorf show I saw some great pieces of kit for carrying bikes that I haven't seen here.

 

[barryd]

I wanted an Auto Trail for our first van, but it never happened. Think they are the best British van overall. The ALKO chassis will give you more fitting options especially if you look at the German manufacturers. At the recent Düsseldorf show I saw some great pieces of kit for carrying bikes that I haven't seen here.

Yes I agree. The rack we have fitted now was fitted by Armitage Trailers, is the best and easiest scooter rack available and is built into the Alko Chassis which of course goes right to the end of the van. Its so solid its rated to 200kg (The van couldnt carry that weight legally though).

 

[Nesting Zombie]

The Nest (My Autotrail Chieftain) Has a Gross Weight Capacity of 4500kg as you suggested earlier in the thread, At the moment & as a Full time Livaboard my Axel Loads are -
Front 1560kg
1st Rear 1370kg
2nd Rear 1200kg
Gross. 4130kg
With Full Water, Fuel, Gas, Supermarket Shop & ready to roll.

So in my case could & has carried a Motorcycle on the carrier with ease. What I also liked about it
(When it was fitted) was, Other Drivers appeared to think twice before Tailgating or getting too close as it certainly protected the entire width of the stern !.
How important is it for you to have & use a M/C ?.

Totally agree about the A/C unit being Heavy, & AT best Under Used !, Taking a lot of power & can be Temperamental Thingymajigs.

 

[barryd]

The Nest (My Autotrail Chieftain) Has a Gross Weight Capacity of 4500kg as you suggested earlier in the thread, At the moment & as a Full time Livaboard my Axel Loads are -
Front 1560kg
1st Rear 1370kg
2nd Rear 1200kg
Gross. 4130kg
With Full Water, Fuel, Gas, Supermarket Shop & ready to roll.

So in my case could & has carried a Motorcycle on the carrier with ease. What I also liked about it (When it was fitted) was, Other Drivers appeared to think twice before Tailgating or getting too close as it certainly protected the entire width of the stern !.

Thanks. Its not that straight forward though with a tag as I believe the calculations of working out the weight the rack and scooter will add have to be taken from the centre of the two rear axles. Its a hell of a distance to where the rack would be which will increase the added weight considerably. I think my original 95kg peugeot, rack and tow bar when fitted to the Kontiki weighed about 150kg all in. The short overhang on the Alko Kontiki though made this over 200kg which took us about to the limit. So on a longer overhang it may be as much as 300kg. I mention this as there was a chap on MHF who had the 4500kg Arapaho and he was over on the back end when fully stocked without a bike on the back! Looks like you have 370kg to play with which sounds enough but how much have you got free out of that total on the back end? I am told that rear lounge models tend to be heavier on the back end as well but not sure if that is true.

The later Tag Autotrails are 5000kg though which looking at the unladen weight of less than 4000kg should be more than enough.

I would go tag if I had to but would rather avoid it.

 

[Nesting Zombie]

I 'Think' that as far as The Overhang issues go, it comes down to a percentage of the Wheel Base, & a Maximum of 60% of Whatever that is !.
In addition to Not exceeding the Maximum permitted Axel weights on the vehicle.

 

[barryd]

I 'Think' that as far as The Overhang issues go, it comes down to a percentage of the Wheel Base, & a Maximum of 60% of Whatever that is !.
In addition to Not exceeding the Maximum permitted Axel weights on the vehicle.

Thanks again. Do you know by chance what the max weights are on your rear axles? I wonder how they compare to the Arapaho. You say the two rear ones were 1st Rear 1370kg and 2nd Rear 1200kg, what can they go up to, do you know?

 

[maingate]

I have just been in a 58 reg Autocruise Starquest with a rear lounge. It has a fairly big overhang but would probably be OK with added air suspension (something you will probably need on whatever rear lounge model you go for). It is about the same length as what you have now. It is on a Boxer base vehicle.