Battery now Caput?

[Alshymer]

Hi
After fitting a new side marker light and rectifying my reverse lamp problem I now have a flat battery!
Cab battery is now 10.4!!
What have I done?!!
I have undone all connections and taped them up back to square one just in case there was a short although everything was working fine.
Maybe it is just a coincidence but the starter battery is less than three years old!
Although the van control panel says 12.9 when I try to start the engine it drops to 10.4 and refuses to turn over.
Meter across the battery registers 10.9 at present. I am going to trickle charge it overnight and try in the morning.
I am not hopeful.
Just out of interest should red and black/red stripe wires be connected together?
The same with the equivalent white/blackwhite stripe wires?
Which terminal is positive on a lamp bulb. I thought it was always the central one?
Does the earth sometimes go to the central one?
I am really struggling with this now so any help would be amazing.

 

[Canalsman]

Bulbs are not polarity sensitive unless they are LED.

Your meter reading suggests that the battery is flat. A lead acid battery no matter what its age can be ruined by leaving it in a discharged state for a significant period of time.

I can't help with the wiring questions. Have you left them as you found them?

 

[Alshymer]

Thanks for your reply.
I have now left the wiring unconnected.

Bulbs are not polarity sensitive unless they are LED.

Your meter reading suggests that the battery is flat. A lead acid battery no matter what its age can be ruined by leaving it in a discharged state for a significant period of time.

I can't help with the wiring questions. Have you left them as you found them?

Thanks for your reply.
The wiring is temporarily disconnected to the rear reversing lamp in case there is a short causing the battery malfunction.
The vehicle has been used regularly recently but in any case has a Battery Master to alleviate the possible discharging.

 

[MERL]

Just out of interest should red and black/red stripe wires be connected together?

Often yes but there's no hard and fast rules. Even if there were someone could have used any old colours prior to you buying the van.
Standard incandescent lamps do not have a polarity and will work either way around but normally positive is taken to the end pin/pins and the body to negative. Most LED upgrade lamps are configured this way around and therefore must be wired like this. The really good LED lamps contain a built in diode bridge and will work either way around. Good quality LED lamps also have PWM constant current devices built into them too and stay the same brightness from say 11-15v.

 

[Martin P]

Quite often in the lamp assembly you will find the outer bulb contact is connected in some way to the vehicle chassis. Which in a modern vehicle is negative

 

[wildebus]

I think if a battery reads as having a decent charge and then as soon as a decent load (such as a starter motor) is applied to it the voltage drops to 10.9V, that points - imo - to a failed battery, not just one that needs a charge.
The last time I had that sort of issue with a starter battery, I had identical symptoms and I believe one of the 6 cells had failed/short circuited. That battery was new (and I mean brand new) so it can happen no matter the age.
You say under 3 years old? that suggests the battery should maybe still be under warranty? I'd speak to the supplier.

 

[Alshymer]

This is how it all started out. I bought some canbus error avoiding LED bulbs for the reversing light to give extra brightness.
After that everything seems to have gone wrong so whether it is a canbus fault I don’t know.
I heard that sometimes it helps to disconnect the battery for a few minutes to reset everything?
If not maybe I will just have to buy a new battery and hope for the best!
Any recommendations? Ducato 2.3 multijet.

I think if a battery reads as having a decent charge and then as soon as a decent load (such as a starter motor) is applied to it the voltage drops to 10.9V, that points - imo - to a failed battery, not just one that needs a charge.
The last time I had that sort of issue with a starter battery, I had identical symptoms and I believe one of the 6 cells had failed/short circuited. That battery was new (and I mean brand new) so it can happen no matter the age.
You say under 3 years old? that suggests the battery should maybe still be under warranty? I'd speak to the supplier.

Good morning
Thanks for your messages.
The battery has been on trickle charge all night and it is now showing 12.4v. If I try to start it the voltage stays at 12.4 but it doesn’t start.
It tries to turn over but can’t.
This is France and the guarantee is only two years!!

 

[trevskoda]

You should be using a smart charger which is way ahead of tricle units which are old hat.
Even though the battery shows a full charge it can still be nackered, get a new one.
In my van i have a switch and 200ah relay which i can connect the less batts to starter bat for emergency starts.
Or you can buy a emergency starter unit from temu, i have one incase i left lights on in my car, works 100%

 

[Alshymer]

I only borrowed the trickle charger as I usually rely on my BatteryMaster to keep the starter battery up to speed.
I have a jump start contraption so will try that this morning but I think I need to order a new battery.
The thing is which one. Probably Bosch.

 

[trevskoda]

I only borrowed the trickle charger as I usually rely on my BatteryMaster to keep the starter battery up to speed.
I have a jump start contraption so will try that this morning but I think I need to order a new battery.
The thing is which one. Probably Bosch.

Make not so important but go for a sealed unit, the heaver the better.

 

[Alshymer]

Put charging gismo on and vehicle started!!
When you say as heavy as possible do you mean just weight or 100AH rather than less?
Thanks for your replies.

 

[MERL]

This is how it all started out. I bought some canbus error avoiding LED bulbs for the reversing light to give extra brightness.
After that everything seems to have gone wrong so whether it is a canbus fault I don’t know.
I heard that sometimes it helps to disconnect the battery for a few minutes to reset everything?
If not maybe I will just have to buy a new battery and hope for the best!
Any recommendations? Ducato 2.3 multijet.

Good morning
Thanks for your messages.
The battery has been on trickle charge all night and it is now showing 12.4v. If I try to start it the voltage stays at 12.4 but it doesn’t start.
It tries to turn over but can’t.
This is France and the guarantee is only two years!!

Connect the multimeter directly to the terminal posts on the battery, not the clamps but the actual lead posts, get someone to keep the probes connected to the posts while you try and start the van. You may have to scratch and push the points of the probes into the lead quite hard to get a good contact and steady reliable reading.
Note down the voltage readings
1 when sitting idle.
2 When you turn on the ignition and the dash board lights illuminate and
3 when you crank the engine.
This will tell if the battery really is knackered or you've got another issue.

 

[trevskoda]

Put charging gismo on and vehicle started!!
When you say as heavy as possible do you mean just weight or 100AH rather than less?
Thanks for your replies.

weight which meens a better lead acid battery, you unit looks like it has been left to drop below 40% which nackers a battery, it will never recover no mater how much you try charging it.

 

[Geek]

weight which meens a better lead acid battery, you unit looks like it has been left to drop below 40% which nackers a battery, it will never recover no mater how much you try charging it.

Not necessarily. You can usually drop a battery below 40% at least a dozen times before it is dead. You can drop a battery to 0% a few times before it is dead, though each time will diminish it.
The trouble with a battery you didn't buy new is that you don't know how many lives have already been used up.

 

[MERL]

Truth is the deeper you discharge the fewer cycles you get. If you want a battery to last as long as possible then don't discharge it at all!
If you study the depth of discharge Vs cycle life charts that are published by some battery manufacturers you can see that typically around 70% discharge gives you the best bang for your buck.
There's no cliff edge with discharge damage and the 50% rule is essentially myth.
Talking lead acid here of course.

 

[Geek]

When you say as heavy as possible do you mean just weight or 100AH rather than less?

Basically, for a lead acid battery, how good the battery is dependa not on the brand or the price, but the amount of lead in the plates. Lead is astonishingly heavy.

For a simple rule of thumb, a 12v 100Ah battery, a crappy one weighs under 20KG, a good one weighs 25KG. The ones to buy weigh 30KG or more.

Obviously these target weights go up or down according to the Ah capacity and are halved for 6v batteries

Guess which parameter is not normally shown in the battery specification.

 

[Alshymer]

Connect the multimeter directly to the terminal posts on the battery, not the clamps but the actual lead posts, get someone to keep the probes connected to the posts while you try and start the van. You may have to scratch and push the points of the probes into the lead quite hard to get a good contact and steady reliable reading.
Note down the voltage readings
1 when sitting idle.
2 When you turn on the ignition and the dash board lights illuminate and
3 when you crank the engine.
This will tell if the battery really is knackered or you've got another issue.

Idle. 13.33
Ignition on 10
Cranking 4.5
Thanks very much for that.

 

[Alshymer]

Basically, for a lead acid battery, how good the battery is dependa not on the brand or the price, but the amount of lead in the plates. Lead is astonishingly heavy.

For a simple rule of thumb, a 12v 100Ah battery, a crappy one weighs under 20KG, a good one weighs 25KG. The ones to buy weigh 30KG or more.

Obviously these target weights go up or down according to the Ah capacity and are halved for 6v batteries

Guess which parameter is not normally shown in the battery specification.

I am thinking of this Bosch at a weight of 21.9Kgs.
Are you saying that it isn’t very good?

Bosch​

S5 013 Car Battery 100 A/h – 830 A – 12 V, Lead Acid for Vehicles without Start/Stop System and Energy Requirements, (-) (+), 353 x 175 x 190 mm​

4.34.3 out of 5 stars (1.6K)
€146.90RRP: €173.00
RRP: €173.00


FREE delivery Fri 17 Jul for Prime members

 

[Geek]

Those voltages suggest that you need a new battery, but get it fully charged before getting it checked.
You can't properly check a flat battery

In the old days, the test tool was a heating element with a volt meter across it.

You'd ram the prongs into the terminals, hoping the battery won't explode and spray your face with fragments of case covered with hot acid (it did happen sometimes).

If the battery was good, you knew it. If the battery was dead, you knew it.
If the battery was on its last legs, the tester killed it.

Nowadays, they use a thing that looks like a multimeter. It takes short pulses of current. No risk of explosion, won't wreck your battery.

Note, these are for testing starter batteries, NOT leisure batteries.

 

[Geek]

I am thinking of this Bosch at a weight of 21.9Kgs.
Are you saying that it isn’t very good?

Bosch​

S5 013 Car Battery 100 A/h – 830 A – 12 V, Lead Acid for Vehicles without Start/Stop System and Energy Requirements, (-) (+), 353 x 175 x 190 mm​

4.34.3 out of 5 stars (1.6K)
€146.90RRP: €173.00
RRP: €173.00
FREE delivery Fri 17 Jul for Prime members

It is not a bad one. The capacity of a starter battery is less important than of a leisure battery. It is only meant to kick the engine into life.

If you are looking at Bosch, be aware thsmat the similar Varta battery is not really similsr: it is identical apart from the label - same spec, same production line. Buy whichever is cheaper.

I bought one of those in March. It was either a Varta or a Bosch silver. I looked at Amazon but got it far cheaper elsewhere.
Didn't pay anything like that much. I recall it was £103 or £107 but I may be wrong about that.
Of course prices do change. Amazon are rarely the best value for batteries.