Victron vs Epever - what do I get for 3.5x the price?

[shaunr68]

Hi all

I'm planning my solar installation on the MH. People rave about Victron gear but it is very expensive. I have installed Epever/Tracer MPPT systems on my 3 previous motorhomes and all have performed flawlessly. Most recently over the course of 5 months on the Algarve last winter with 490w solar and 330Ah AGM, off grid the entire time. The AGMs are setup with a custom charge profile confirmed by the manufacturer.

So I am intrigued as to what additional benefits a Victron system might provide. I have some money spare and am happy to fork out for the right system if it offers value for money.

The solar will be 2x 245w Panasonic HIT-N panels running at 44.3v Vmpp. I may add a third panel extending the system to 735w, panels installed in parallel.

The batteries will be 3x 110Ah AGMs from my previous MH. I MAY go Lithium in the next few years if the hype stands up to long term scrutiny and the lifecycle claims are to be believed and don't turn out to have been written by VW's emissions department

The choice:
Epever 30A MPPT Solar Charge Controller Tracer A + Remote Meter MT-50 + temperature sensor total £128

Victron 100/30 £214.99 plus BMV-712 smart meter £197.30 = total £412.29

Both controllers feature current limiting, I am satisfied with an effective cap of 30 amps rather than opting for a higher rated unit.

That's a huge price difference. What do I get from the Victron for 3.5x the price, Bluetooth monitoring and an app to show performance history? Lithium compatability? Is that the lot?

If you got this far, well done and thanks for reading

 

[wildebus]

For a start, the MT-50 is not a battery monitor and the info it provides is native to the Victron Smart Solar controller via the App.

Next, as a member of this forum, you would be able to get a Victron 100/30 controller for under £200.

So let's make the comparison £128 vs £190 and not £128 vs £412.
For the extra, the Victron would offer the convenience of Remote Access via Bluetooth, fine tuning capability to suit any battery you want to use (future proofing) and a 5 year warranty.

Is that worth the extra? Only you can decide that for your situation.

 

[Harryw]

call me lazy and a spendthrift but I really like Victron Bluetooth and App on the iPhone. Not sure that answers the question but without the ability to view and control what’s going on on my phone I’m fecked....

 

[shaunr68]

Thanks for your detailed response Wildebus.

I don't understand the first sentence though. What I'm trying to compare is Epever + remote meter vs Victron + remote meter. I understand that the BMV-712 is more sophisticated than the MT-50, what I'm trying to work out is are the additional features worth it to me. I DO want a remote display/gauge that I can just glance at rather than having to pick up my phone and open an app. For example I have got into the habit of checking the battery voltage when I get up in the middle of the night for a wizz (must be reaching that age!) as I know the batteries will have been at rest for a few hours. I don't really want to go digging around for my phone at 2am on the way to the bog!

I have found it sufficient being able to read the battery voltage and amps going into the batteries. I appreciate that the Victron will do a lot more in terms of measuring consumption and so on, and provide graphs of daily/weekly usage etc. I'm sure a lot of this is very useful but how much of it is a gimmick?

Can I summarise what I think I'm asking?

You're saying that I can get just the Victron controller for under £200 which is fair enough. So this provides of course all the charging functionality plus monitoring via Bluetooth and the app? Everything I need other than a remote display.

What does the BMV-712 do on top of this to justify almost £200 price tag and is there a cheaper alternative considering my requirements?

Many thanks
Shaun

 

[witzend]

Hi all I'm planning my solar installation on the MH. People rave about Victron gear but it is very expensive. I have installed Epever/Tracer MPPT systems on my 3 previous motorhomes and all have performed flawlessly.

Then why even think about a different layout if its working so well just duplicate it on the new van. When ever I see a 5yr warranty advertised I'm always very sceptical

 

[shaunr68]

Then why even think about a different layout if its working so well just duplicate it on the new van. When ever I see a 5yr warranty advertised I'm always very sceptical

I know what you mean. The thing is, I quite fancy the extra information that the app provides. I quite like the idea of tinkering and comparing this week's solar output to last, but I'm not quite sure to what extent this information is useful and how much is just a gimmick. Unless the Victron actually charges the batteries more efficiently than the Tracer, or harvests more solar then I can't really justify it in my mind as being "essential"

 

[Harryw]

Pros and Cons to both tbh, here’s a review that covers both makes .

 

[shaunr68]

Pros and Cons to both tbh, here’s a review that covers both makes .

Great find, thank you!

 

[wildebus]

Thanks for your detailed response Wildebus.

I don't understand the first sentence though. What I'm trying to compare is Epever + remote meter vs Victron + remote meter. I understand that the BMV-712 is more sophisticated than the MT-50, what I'm trying to work out is are the additional features worth it to me. I DO want a remote display/gauge that I can just glance at rather than having to pick up my phone and open an app. For example I have got into the habit of checking the battery voltage when I get up in the middle of the night for a wizz (must be reaching that age!) as I know the batteries will have been at rest for a few hours. I don't really want to go digging around for my phone at 2am on the way to the bog!

I have found it sufficient being able to read the battery voltage and amps going into the batteries. I appreciate that the Victron will do a lot more in terms of measuring consumption and so on, and provide graphs of daily/weekly usage etc. I'm sure a lot of this is very useful but how much of it is a gimmick?

Can I summarise what I think I'm asking?

You're saying that I can get just the Victron controller for under £200 which is fair enough. So this provides of course all the charging functionality plus monitoring via Bluetooth and the app? Everything I need other than a remote display.

What does the BMV-712 do on top of this to justify almost £200 price tag and is there a cheaper alternative considering my requirements?

Many thanks
Shaun

You are looking at the epever and remote display, and wondering if the "wonderful" Victron kit people enthuse about is worth getting?

Let's dissect this a bit further ....
#1 - you are comparing the WRONG Victron kit with the epever + monitor. You have chosen to compare with the Victron 100/30 Smart Solar Controller. The controller in the Victron range that would be the closest match would be the 100/30 Blue Solar - no bluetooth (I know, "blue" means NO Bluetooth!) - that could be bought by you today for no more than £166.33.
#2 - you are comparing the WRONG Victron kit with the MT-50. You have chose the most advanced Victron Battery Monitor in the range to compare against a basic solar controller remote. You could have chosen the BMV-700 at £115 to you rather then the nearly £200 you are thinking. In actual fact the correct equivalent to the MT-50 and partner to the 100/30 is the 'MPPT Control Display' which is around £65 (plus £12-£20 depending on how long you want the connecting cable - can be upto 10 metres) - with cable, call it say £80.
so you would in fact be looking at around £246 for a Victron MPPT Controller with a physical display dedicated to the MPPT.

Note that the BMV-712 (and the other BMVs) serve a distinctly different purpose than being a solar monitor.

So again, it is really a choice to is it worth the extra to you? if you are happy with the results of the epever and familiar with the MT-50, maybe not.
Where Victron have put a lot of their technical efforts in is into the connectivity between their products so they can interact to provide a complete solution IF that is what someone wants to do. For someone with a single Victron product, that connectivity may be worth little*


*or is it just little? for example, Victron update the firmware of their products on a fairly regular basis to improve them. These updates are delivered to the products via the phone app for Bluetooth enabled devices at no cost. I don't know any other commonly used make that does this.

 

[witzend]

I know what you mean. The thing is, I quite fancy the extra information that the app provides. I quite like the idea of tinkering and comparing this week's solar output to last, but I'm not quite sure to what extent this information is useful and how much is just a gimmick. Unless the Victron actually charges the batteries more efficiently than the Tracer, or harvests more solar then I can't really justify it in my mind as being "essential"

When I fitted mine it was much simpler to put the controller out of easy sight. I was at the beginning always struggling to look at it now can't remember the last time if it works leave well alone. It was a German kit that started life in china

 

[landoboguy]

Victron for me 100%

 

[molly 2]

Just to add are you aware that epever bluetooth dongle is around £20

 

[shaunr68]

You are looking at the epever and remote display, and wondering if the "wonderful" Victron kit people enthuse about is worth getting?

Let's dissect this a bit further ....
#1 - you are comparing the WRONG Victron kit with the epever + monitor. You have chosen to compare with the Victron 100/30 Smart Solar Controller. The controller in the Victron range that would be the closest match would be the 100/30 Blue Solar - no bluetooth (I know, "blue" means NO Bluetooth!) - that could be bought by you today for no more than £166.33.
#2 - you are comparing the WRONG Victron kit with the MT-50. You have chose the most advanced Victron Battery Monitor in the range to compare against a basic solar controller remote. You could have chosen the BMV-700 at £115 to you rather then the nearly £200 you are thinking. In actual fact the correct equivalent to the MT-50 and partner to the 100/30 is the 'MPPT Control Display' which is around £65 (plus £12-£20 depending on how long you want the connecting cable - can be upto 10 metres) - with cable, call it say £80.
so you would in fact be looking at around £246 for a Victron MPPT Controller with a physical display dedicated to the MPPT.

Note that the BMV-712 (and the other BMVs) serve a distinctly different purpose than being a solar monitor.

So again, it is really a choice to is it worth the extra to you? if you are happy with the results of the epever and familiar with the MT-50, maybe not.
Where Victron have put a lot of their technical efforts in is into the connectivity between their products so they can interact to provide a complete solution IF that is what someone wants to do. For someone with a single Victron product, that connectivity may be worth little*


*or is it just little? for example, Victron update the firmware of their products on a fairly regular basis to improve them. These updates are delivered to the products via the phone app for Bluetooth enabled devices at no cost. I don't know any other commonly used make that does this.

Once again thanks for this extremely useful information, looks like I need to do some more research to identify which kit might be appropriate. Thanks

 

[Markd]

If you want a trickle feed to your starter you should consider a Votronic controller although in not sure they go up to 750w

Thinking of this have you checked current rating of controllers with panels in parallel.

 

[shaunr68]

d to your starter you should consider a Votronic controller although in not sure they go up to 750w

Thinking of this have you checked current rating of controllers with panels in parallel.

I have never bothered connecting any of my past solar installations to the starter battery. My view is a properly maintained starter battery shouldn't need to be propped up by solar. I don't have panels on my car.

Can't remember exactly but the 245w panels are each rated at around 5.5 amps at 44 volts. So theoretical optimal output of around 18 amps each, but of course you never see anything near that in real world conditions. The controllers I'm looking at all feature current limitation anyway so whatever I throw at them will be capped at 30 amps which I'd be more than happy with.

Cheers

 

[Jamist]

I had the same decision to make recently and opted for Victron in the end. The bluetooth is great and very useful including firmware updates, the 5 year warranty is a plus. I would happily buy the Epever which offers better vale for money but the Victron is a better product.

 

[Markd]

I have never bothered connecting any of my past solar installations to the starter battery. My view is a properly maintained starter battery shouldn't need to be propped up by solar. I don't have panels on my car.

Can't remember exactly but the 245w panels are each rated at around 5.5 amps at 44 volts. So theoretical optimal output of around 18 amps each, but of course you never see anything near that in real world conditions. The controllers I'm looking at all feature current limitation anyway so whatever I throw at them will be capped at 30 amps which I'd be more than happy with.

Cheers

Proper maintenance of a battery includes keeping it charged. Sometimes a motorhome may be left standing for several weeks or even months and in that time the alarm system can tun a battery down.
This could just as easily happen with a car if left for very long periods.
Hence the benefit of having a trickle charge from solar.
I speak from experience after my starter battery went completely flat - so flat that mains chargers wouldn't do anything. Amazingly it did recover after jump starting and I installed a dual channel charger since when it's been fine.
For peace of mind I'd recommend it - after the power is available why not use it?

 

[in h]

You can get the epever for about £80 (well, I did, twice). You need to pay extra if you want the WiFi or Bluetooth interface, but that gives far more control.
You used to be able to set the battery type and parameters in the app, but now you choose the app version suitable for your battery bank.
My first epever died after getting a bit wet (it's used outdoors and its box sprang a leak). Not sure if the Victron is more water resistant

 

[shaunr68]

Proper maintenance of a battery includes keeping it charged. Sometimes a motorhome may be left standing for several weeks or even months and in that time the alarm system can tun a battery down.
This could just as easily happen with a car if left for very long periods.
Hence the benefit of having a trickle charge from solar.
I speak from experience after my starter battery went completely flat - so flat that mains chargers wouldn't do anything. Amazingly it did recover after jump starting and I installed a dual channel charger since when it's been fine.
For peace of mind I'd recommend it - after the power is available why not use it?

For me the MH is never laid up for any period of time as I live in it. If I did ever intend putting it in storage I'd disconnect the negative battery cable. I understand what you're saying, and agree that in some situations it might be useful, horses for courses and all that

 

[shaunr68]

You can get the epever for about £80 (well, I did, twice). You need to pay extra if you want the WiFi or Bluetooth interface, but that gives far more control.
You used to be able to set the battery type and parameters in the app, but now you choose the app version suitable for your battery bank.
My first epever died after getting a bit wet (it's used outdoors and its box sprang a leak). Not sure if the Victron is more water resistant

It looks like both the MT-50 interface and the Bluetooth interface both use the single RJ-45 port on the Epever which means that you can have either the remote display OR bluetooth but not both. Is that the case?