The Law and wildcamping help please!

[tulsehillboys]

So much confusing info out there (particularly slanted stuff from the caravan clubs) but does anyone have details of the laws around wildcamping?
Clearly much of the legislation is directed to travellers setting up camp. All laws are subject to interpretation and local bylaws can be a confounding factor.

Has anyone sorted through all this and come up with some "answers"?

Lee

 

[John H]

Nothing like opening a can of worms is there???

This one could run and run (and has done several times before) but there are a few basic rules:

1. As long as your vehicle is legal (ie, properly taxed, insured and MOTd) and as long as only your wheels are on the ground (ie you are not camped) and as long as you are not breaking any other rules (obstruction etc) then you are legally parked. There are no laws that prohibit you falling asleep in a parked vehicle.

2. The Highways Authority (usually the Secretary of State in relation to trunk roads and the County Council on other roads) has the right to restrict parking (including on the basis of weight/height etc) through Road Traffic Orders, so they can prohibit, for example, overnight parking on the edge of the highway or in car parks. NB many local authorities put up prohibitive signs without the force of a RTO behind them, and it is rarely clear which is which without taking up a lot of your time to find out.

My general rule (not the law) is to park up where I won't be annoying people. If there is a notice (whether or not it has the force of law behind it) then I tend to avoid that area because there will probably be someone who will complain and then our reputation goes out the window (the reputation of wildcampers, that is). If we don't annoy anyone, they will probably leave us alone - others will most definitely not agree!

 

[Deleted member 967]

Nothing like opening a can of worms is there???

This one could run and run (and has done several times before) but there are a few basic rules:

1. As long as your vehicle is legal (ie, properly taxed, insured and MOTd) and as long as only your wheels are on the ground (ie you are not camped) and as long as you are not breaking any other rules (obstruction etc) then you are legally parked. There are no laws that prohibit you falling asleep in a parked vehicle.

2. The Highways Authority (usually the Secretary of State in relation to trunk roads and the County Council on other roads) has the right to restrict parking (including on the basis of weight/height etc) through Road Traffic Orders, so they can prohibit, for example, overnight parking on the edge of the highway or in car parks. NB many local authorities put up prohibitive signs without the force of a RTO behind them, and it is rarely clear which is which without taking up a lot of your time to find out.

My general rule (not the law) is to park up where I won't be annoying people. If there is a notice (whether or not it has the force of law behind it) then I tend to avoid that area because there will probably be someone who will complain and then our reputation goes out the window (the reputation of wildcampers, that is). If we don't annoy anyone, they will probably leave us alone - others will most definitely not agree!

I agree with John except for one point. Some local authorities have by-laws that prevent users of their car parks from eating, cooking or sleeping in a parked vehicle. However they should apply this fairly and so apply it to all vehicles not just Motor Caravans.

Signs are put up to indicate that the landowner has not given permission for you to stay overnight on his land. He is responsible for enforcing this, (not the police) but must do so through the courts. The local Authority can fine him, not you, if you park on his land and he does not have a site licence and planning permission except under certain circumstances laid down in the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960.

 

[angelaa]

We were away this weekend, and went to a usual haunt. There were 4 other motorhomes parked up. They went on to put table and chairs out and bbq on the footpath. You could see people looking annoyed. There was a beach a few yards away. Feel this will give us all a bad name.

 

[Hobbsy]

yep, i agree, nothing like taking the piss is there. I was out with some who cranked the generator up until midnight!!! no doubt another spot soon to be removed off the POI

 

[Hobbsy]

yep, i agree, nothing like taking the piss is there. I was out with some who cranked the generator up until midnight!!! no doubt another spot soon to be removed off the POI

Oh, and they talkk three spaces for two vans! whats that all about?

 

[maureenandtom]

Nothing like opening a can of worms is there???

This one could run and run (and has done several times before) but there are a few basic rules:

1. As long as your vehicle is legal (ie, properly taxed, insured and MOTd) and as long as only your wheels are on the ground (ie you are not camped) and as long as you are not breaking any other rules (obstruction etc) then you are legally parked. There are no laws that prohibit you falling asleep in a parked vehicle.

2. The Highways Authority (usually the Secretary of State in relation to trunk roads and the County Council on other roads) has the right to restrict parking (including on the basis of weight/height etc) through Road Traffic Orders, so they can prohibit, for example, overnight parking on the edge of the highway or in car parks. NB many local authorities put up prohibitive signs without the force of a RTO behind them, and it is rarely clear which is which without taking up a lot of your time to find out.

My general rule (not the law) is to park up where I won't be annoying people. If there is a notice (whether or not it has the force of law behind it) then I tend to avoid that area because there will probably be someone who will complain and then our reputation goes out the window (the reputation of wildcampers, that is). If we don't annoy anyone, they will probably leave us alone - others will most definitely not agree!

I think there will be few who disagree with this.

Personally, I am prepared to go a little further with the cooking, camping sleeping restrictions. If I have little alternative then I am prepared to flout this rule and either take the consequences if challenged or insist that the council proves that they have the right to enforce this rule and that I have actually cooked, camped or slept. I never have, but I might be prepared to test the no overnight parking in a layby rule too.

This doesn't really answer the question though, does it. Common sense says that John's first paragraph is a good place to start when looking at each individual occasion.

Obvious camping, chairs out, barbecue, sunbeds . . . The people who do this display a peculiar lack of sensitivity.

Sorry John, no argument this time.

 

[donkey too]

yep, i agree, nothing like taking the piss is there. I was out with some who cranked the generator up until midnight!!! no doubt another spot soon to be removed off the POI

This happened at Exmouth last week and the person with the genny also had a dog kennel beside his van and the front wheels of the van were blocked up at least 12 inches. His kids were a bloody nuisance to us all and his washing line had washing on it that I wouldn't put out on my line at home. I think he just dryed it after wetting it in the sea. certainly didn't use persil.
the next van to his was a welshman who delighted in telling everyone how easy it was to fiddle the authorities and get a blue badge which he was using to get free parking. although he could walk over a mile to the station to get a train to Exeter.
The two of them took up one disabled space and 2 ordinary spaces. They also grumbled at a small car trying to park between them.
I hope they are on this site although I doubt it as they would have to part with some money. But I did over the 24 hours I was there get a lot of personal information from them and have passed it to relevant authorities. As it is my belief that people who fraudulently obtain a blue badge are not beyond fraudulently getting benefits.
I spoke to some members of the town council who I know personally and they tell me that the whole subject of overnighting on Exmouth prom is going to be discussed at full council due to the complaints they have recieived.
So if you are reading this you scrotes. I am the bloke that gave you the web address of this site.

 

[yorkslass]

Nothing like opening a can of worms is there???

This one could run and run (and has done several times before) but there are a few basic rules:

1. As long as your vehicle is legal (ie, properly taxed, insured and MOTd) and as long as only your wheels are on the ground (ie you are not camped) and as long as you are not breaking any other rules (obstruction etc) then you are legally parked. There are no laws that prohibit you falling asleep in a parked vehicle.

2. The Highways Authority (usually the Secretary of State in relation to trunk roads and the County Council on other roads) has the right to restrict parking (including on the basis of weight/height etc) through Road Traffic Orders, so they can prohibit, for example, overnight parking on the edge of the highway or in car parks. NB many local authorities put up prohibitive signs without the force of a RTO behind them, and it is rarely clear which is which without taking up a lot of your time to find out.

My general rule (not the law) is to park up where I won't be annoying people. If there is a notice (whether or not it has the force of law behind it) then I tend to avoid that area because there will probably be someone who will complain and then our reputation goes out the window (the reputation of wildcampers, that is). If we don't annoy anyone, they will probably leave us alone - others will most definitely not agree!

we stopped off near york last night, parked out of sight of houses and the road. we have used this place before without problem but this morning a guy from the council stopped by and said he had had a complaint. dont know if this is true or if he was been a jobsworth because he was there to empty a dog bin. there are no signs up. really like this place so dont know wether to go back or not.

 

[boovy51]

Blue badge

Good on you donkey too, need to get these scants off.
They lower the tone of camping. well done.

 

[davymk2]

As for sleeeping in a layby I think that's a bit selfish and may possibly stop an HGV driver from pulling in and getting their 45min break etc. Most of the ones I see like that are on trunk/A roads just a wee bbit of consideration for other road users eh?

 

[Deleted member 775]

a laybie is for motor viehcles ,all types, and most will accomodate a motor home and a hgv .the thing that is stupid is when you see one viehcle parked dead center of the laybie .some laybies are not ideal places to spend a night but ,at least we can park there without fear of being moved on. ok i know someone is going to say your not realy allowed to sleep on a laybie unless there is a barrier between the laybie and road but i will say this to them there is always the oppertunity for them to use a campsite if they keep on putting arguments forward about how against the law wild camping may be if there that worried about parking up somewhare then use a campsite . we do have some on this site that seem to say that its ileagel and seem to insist that we aught not to do it to them i say ok if thats what you feel then pay for a campsit and leave us that want to carry on our hobby of wilding legal or not right back to the plot . when we had our van i used to prefer visiting a place and then move out a mile or so and spend the night in one .so as for leaving laybies for hgv only no just park sensebly and everybody will be happy at least there a loy less hassle .

 

[maureenandtom]

Yes. You might just as well say it's selfish of HGV drivers to take space on a layby that could be used be two or three cars.

My broad view is that if it's legal for other motor vehicles then it's legal for me. Discriminate on height, or weight or width or whatever. But not just because I might sleep in my vehicle. You might as well discriminate on colour. “No parking for blue vehicles here.”

On a car park. The broad question is, "Is overnight parking permitted?" If yes, then the fact that I might be asleep is nobody's business but mine. My opinion.

 

[Deleted member 775]

one thing it may be against the law or not to sleep in a viehcle but try proving you were asleep at the time ,as they must knock on the van door to see if you are in if there is no answer then how can they prove anyone is in and if you answer the door you are not asleep are you because you must be awake to answer the door if the say are you sleeping you say no i carnt be as i am talking to you .

 

[davymk2]

Not saying it isnt illegal just a bit of condsideration on A roads etc some poor fella might only have a sort time left to find somewhere to park up quite sure you could find a place near by easily enough not so easy for a class 1 etc and plus most ratz plaz's visited by HGV drivers reek of pish anyway.

 

[Deleted member 775]

well as for consideration in laybies , and i have slept in may many laybies with a 45 foot trailer at the back of me ,mabey thats why i still like using laybies now , there is nobody worse at times than hgv drivers for parking smack in the middle with there cabs parked at an angle pointing to the right . if parked properly a camper van will not stop a hgv from pulling on to 99% of laybies and the other 1% a wagon cannot get on anyway

 

[Firefox]

1. You need the permission of the landowner to be legally camped. You can be asked to move on if you don't have it.

2. In Scotland it is legal in wild areas for tents under certain circumstances (not for motorhomes, but in practice a blind eye is turned if you keep out of the way)

3. On highways land, roads and some verges, it is legal to park where not causing an obstruction and not falling foul of any byelaws. The police can't move you on if you are not causing an obstruction. You can't have stuff outside the van or on the highway. There's no restriction on sleeping in a parked vehicle.

4. Number 3 means there are hundreds of opportunities in built up areas especially, all over the place, to legally stopover. Rural areas offer less opportunity as there is less highway and many roads are clearways. Some people (mainly novices) don't seem to think of urban camping as wild camping (after all to be "wild," you have to have a view of the sea or mountains don't you?) Nothing could be further from the truth!

 

[Deleted member 775]

we have wild camped in london, now that is wild ,best one was up a side street in harlsdon .every body was too concerned about there own lives to be bothered with what a camper van parked at the side of the road was doing . also many dont realise how handy many industrial estates are, you will always find a place there .ok these places are not as nice as a beuty spot or at the side of a beach but the cost is nothing , and there is no hassle with good for nothing busy bodies .

 

[kath22]

we regularly camp down Barry Knapp with no problem at all

Having BBQ's sitting out enjoying the view etc

The council now actually talk to us down there

 

[John H]

we stopped off near york last night, parked out of sight of houses and the road. we have used this place before without problem but this morning a guy from the council stopped by and said he had had a complaint. dont know if this is true or if he was been a jobsworth because he was there to empty a dog bin. there are no signs up. really like this place so dont know wether to go back or not.

If the guy was there to empty dog -waste bins then it is highly unlikely that he would have any authority to enforce parking regulations - whether or not anyone had complained to him while he was emtying those bins. If there are no parking restrictions displayed and you were obeying the rules of the road then he is definitely a jobsworth. Smile sweetly and ignore him.

Btw this must be a record - two pages of posts on the subject of wildcamping and the law and virtually no disagreement - what is this site coming to???