Parking Fine at Motorway Services

[applecore]

Just got back from Holiday to find a fine from a RoadChef services we stopped overnight - I was to tired to drive any further.

Any advise from other who have been through this?

 

[David & Ann]

I am careful it does not happen to me. I am aware that you are allowed up to 2 hours free parking. After that you must pay according to type of Vechile, cars are £8 Trucks are £12. Campers would come under the £12 bracket. This of course was 3 years ago. I don't know what the charges are now.
This is the only country in the world that I know of that charges parking in a rest place. Maybe I am wrong but I have not come across one that does so.

 

[Deleted member 967]

Just got back from Holiday to find a fine from a RoadChef services we stopped overnight - I was to tired to drive any further.

Any advise from other who have been through this?

Here at Roadchef we welcome touring customers and are working hard to ensure that, through our partnership with The Caravan Club, we understand and satisfy your needs most effectively.

All of our car parks are large and spacious with, in some cases, specific signage to guide caravanners and motor caravan customers to the most appropriate area. In some cases touring customers can also utilise larger parking bays created for coaches, caravans and motor caravans and wherever possible they are kept away from HGV parking areas. Furthermore, we are currently in the process of reviewing the directional signage in and out of our parking areas with a view to improving site circulation in the future.

Indeed, Roadchef has recently announced a £150,000 Capital Works Programme, designed to regenerate its car, touring and coach parking areas, particularly at older sites, in order to achieve more effective segregation and improve conditions by repairing potholes, improving drainage and reducing the amount of litter. In addition money will also be spent on access roads to improve conditions after the particularly severe winter of 2010.

No sign of them putting in Aire or bourne facilities. The service areas expect that if they let you to stop, you probably will spend money in their facilities.

They do charge for stays over 2 hours but the rates vary according to the location of the services.

to avoid any confusion, we feel that is important to point out that for stays of over 2 hours, where a valid parking ticket has not been purchased, a penalty charge of £80 will be incurred,

I have read on other forums that people ignore these charges and the letters get more and more threatening including court action. They also say do not respond to any of the letters. They claim no one seems to have been taken to court for not paying and the letter stop if they are ignored.

I do not advocate this line of action, just passing on the info.

John

 

[Firefox]

I think it is all done on ANPR now so these fines are automated.

I believe you can stay longer than 2 hours in the Caravan/lorry bays for a small charge, I think it is £5 or £8 so they do cater in that respect.

Basically it is just to stop people going to airports etc sharing cars and leaving vehicles for days and weeks but we get the crap as usual.

I'd be interested to see if they don't bother to prosecute these cases.

 

[maingate]

If it happens to me, I will ignore all requests or demands for payment.

Too many people have ignored them and not suffered any prosecution.

 

[Firefox]

The thing though, is they may prosecute some as warnings. They don't have to take it to court it's up to them to recover the debt or write it off.

But your expectation on ignoring is probably hugely positive.

Say £80 if you pay up.


Or £80+ court costs = £200-300(?)+ (x chance of successful prosecution) (1 in 10?) = probably only £20 or £30

Just plead guilty by proxy if they have photographic evidence which will stand up.

 

[bevdrew]

I have also read that people just ignore these and eventually the company stops sending letters etc.

One thing that I would ask is, can they prove who was driving/in charge of vehicle at the time of the alleged "offence"? If not then don't pay.

 

[Firefox]

I don't think the "who was driving" excuse will work.

Since the offence is not related to licence points, they charge the keeper of the vehicle, and it is up to the keeper to recover the money from the driver, that they (presumably) gave permission to drive. This is the way local authorities get you. They just bill the keeper and provide photographic evidence the vehicle was in the place stated. Also similar, the congestion charge, LEZ, etc etc.

 

[maingate]

my Brother-in-law was recently sent a demand for payment of £80 for overstaying in a Road Chef. If you pay up within 28 days, youonly pay £50.

How kind of them.

 

[caspar]

Two good ways forward for you. Firstly contact vwalan - he's an absolute expert in this area of law.

Secondly I think he will probably suggest you put all original paperwork back in the original envelope. Put a sticker over the address and write on it, "No Contract, Return To Sender"

Do not put a stamp on it or recognise it in any other way whatsoever, just send it back. If there's no address on the envelope to send it to, just post it in the post box. May sound strange but suspect it will sort it for you!

 

[caspar]

Or Charge or Demand Rebuttal Template 1.1 follow this link and send this to them.

Do not pay it and at no stage admit to being under contract with them.

 

[caspar]

I am careful it does not happen to me. I am aware that you are allowed up to 2 hours free parking. After that you must pay according to type of Vechile, cars are £8 Trucks are £12. Campers would come under the £12 bracket. This of course was 3 years ago. I don't know what the charges are now.
This is the only country in the world that I know of that charges parking in a rest place. Maybe I am wrong but I have not come across one that does so.

Wrong! A motorhome is a car as classed by The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002. Under Category M1 a motorhome is very clearly classified as a car with a special body.

 

[caspar]

I know this will seem really cranky if you've not come across it before, but it works! Any questions feel free to phone me 01443 675900. Basically by giving them notice and conditionally accepting the fine you are removing ALL controversy. You state quite clearly the evidence you need from them. If they try to take it to court it will be dismissed as there is no controversy - you have accepted their fine subject to them doing x,y and z! As I said the wording may seem cranky, but stick EXACTLY to it and send it off to them.



This is the FMOTL way :

In care of:
your address here
Near: [postcode]
Date here, 2009

Re: ref number , dated date of summons etc
Notice of Discharge of Outstanding Demand and Request for Clarification.

{Manager
Central Process Unit
PO Box 273
Blackburn
BB1 2XA } or which ever authority you are under.

Dear Sirs,

Please read the following notice thoroughly and carefully before responding. It is a notice. It informs you. It means what it says.

The reason why you need to read carefully is simple. I am offering conditional agreement. This removes controversy, and means that you no longer have any ultimate recourse to a court of law in this matter, because there is no controversy upon which it could adjudicate. You always have the option of dragging these conditions into a court of law only to be told that they are, indeed, perfectly lawful. That is, of course, always your prerogative should you decide to waste your time.

For this reason it is important that you consider and respond to the offer in substance. The 'nearest official form' will not suffice, and consequently is likely to be ignored by myself without any dishonour on my part.

On the other hand there is a time-limit on the agreement being offered. It is reasonable, and if it runs out then you and all associated parties are in default, removing any and all lawful excuse on your part for proceeding in this matter.

For these reasons it is recommended that you carefully consider this notice and respond in substance, which means actually addressing the points raised herein.

You have apparently made demands upon me.

I do not understand those apparent demands and therefore cannot lawfully fulfil them. I seek clarification of your document so that I may act according to the law and maintain my entire body of inalienable Natural Rights.

Failure to accept this offer to clarify and to do so completely and in good faith within 7 (seven) days will be deemed by all parties to mean you and your principal or other parties abandon all demands upon me.

I conditionally accept your offer to agree that I am legal fiction 'person' your full name here and in capitals’ and that I must furnish you with details for consideration for forfeiture rendered by your company, upon proof of claim of all of the following:

1. Upon proof of claim that I am a person, and not a human being.

2. Upon proof of claim that you know what a 'person' actually is, in legal terms.

3. Upon proof of claim that you know the difference between a 'human being' and a 'person', legally speaking.

4. Upon proof of claim that you know the difference between 'legal' and a 'lawful'.

5. Upon proof of claim that I am legal fiction 'person' full name here in capitals again, being the entity to which your paperwork was addressed, and notChristain name: of theSurname family, as commonly called.

6. Upon proof of claim that the charge was the result of a lawful investigation unmarred by prejudice.

7. Upon proof of claim that I am a member of the society whose statutes and subsisting regulations you are enforcing.

8. Upon proof of claim that I showed you some sort of identification.

9 Upon proof of claim that there is a nameable society that I belong to and that the laws covered within any alleged transgressions state that they apply to me within that named society.

Sincerely and without ill will, vexation or frivolity,

Christian name: of the Surname family
WITHOUT PREJUDICE, i.e. all Natural Inalienable Rights Reserved
Please address all future correspondence in the matter to a direct Human Self, namely Christain name of the Surname family, as commonly called.

 

[Firefox]

Well it seems I was wrong about the driver/keeper, they only have right to charge the Driver.

This is actually a minefield:

Try this link:

FAQs - Private Parking Companies/Charges (everything you need to know)

The long and the short of it is, as I understand it now, yes you are legally liable for fine, if you admit you were the driver and you were aware of the parking restriction and entered into a "contract" with them by parking there and understanding the terms of the parking agreement.

But.... if you refuse to admit you were the driver or you were aware of the terms of the contract, then the onus on them is to prove all that, which they are unlikely to be able to do. So you basically have a loop hole to "get off" by lying, playing silent, and not cooperating. As usual the law is a bit of an ass!

This is only true for a private enforcement company. Public authorities and the police have much greater powers to get you!

 

[caspar]

Well it seems I was wrong about the driver/keeper, they only have right to charge the Driver.

This is actually a minefield:

Try this link:

FAQs - Private Parking Companies/Charges (everything you need to know)

The long and the short of it is, as I understand it now, yes you are legally liable for fine, if you admit you were the driver and you were aware of the parking restriction and entered into a "contract" with them by parking there and understanding the terms of the parking agreement.

But.... if you refuse to admit you were the driver or you were aware of the terms of the contract, then the onus on them is to prove all that, which they are unlikely to be able to do. So you basically have a loop hole to "get off" by lying, playing silent, and not cooperating. As usual the law is a bit of an ass!

This is only true for a private enforcement company. Public authorities and the police have much greater powers to get you!

Hence my initial suggestion to just send it back to them No Contract - Return To Sender.

The legal definition of a contract is very clear and it will be impossible for them to prove you have entered into one with them. For goodness sake don't pay it! However nasty the letters get, they are just words and are not enforecable.

I've outlined several options - both manicmerc and vwalan will advise you on similar lines as myself I suspect and are VERY knowledgeable about the subject.

 

[Firefox]

In a sense the law is silly because most people I'm sure know they were the driver and they were aware of the restrictions, so there was an unwritten contract, but they are just seeking a loophole to avoid paying.

But at the same time, it is doing its job, because I'm sure some people will pay to cover the costs of all the "enforcement" and enough people are ignorant enough of the full situation (I certainly was) and thus the car parks are kept free enough of the long term parkers to be usable.

Put it this way, one may not like getting threatening letters, but on the other hand, I'm sure we'd all expect to turn up at a services and get a space to break the journey. If the car park was full all the time, people would be bitterly complaining too, so there are two sides to this coin!

 

[vwalan]

we said that with out moving our lips.
thanks casper .you have read alot . john will be here in a minute .
just follow the law . let them do the actions . it may be they havent got a leg to stand on. even the police and the local authority break the law more times than us. there is many miss justice done because people lay on their backs and tip their wallet at the first hurdle. remember they employ people to break the law just to suit them. it takes a court order to make you pay. but more than likely they cant make it stick. its up to the people of this country to stand up for law and order . do not let the authority run rough shod over the people it supposed to be working for. they only win because most people decide to be a loser . be a winner and stand up to miss use of authority. after all they make the rules then break them and punish you.
cheers alan.

 

[caspar]

In a sense the law is silly because most people I'm sure know they were the driver

Sorry to be a pain, but do you know the lawful definition of a driver? The person "driving" the car as most understand it is not necessarily driving. I know it sounds gobbledegook but it's true!

 

[jayeastanglia]

can answer this for you as i worked for a company that did this sort of thing....Legally dont pay it as the company has to pay the initial court fee(its a cival case btw)and any judge in a cival case will not allow it to go any further as there fine is not a reasonable charge..DO NOT respond to any letters sent just bin them......BUT if the car park is council owned which motorway services are NOT.DO NOT ignore any council/trafic warden tickets as they are legally inforced...Basically ignore any letters and any calls or door knocks just say i will go to court.I would say in honestly The conpany i worked for never took any case to court they just hoped people would just pay up..

 

[caspar]

can answer this for you as i worked for a company that did this sort of thing....Legally dont pay it as the company has to pay the initial court fee(its a cival case btw)and any judge in a cival case will not allow it to go any further as there fine is not a reasonable charge..DO NOT respond to any letters sent just bin them......BUT if the car park is council owned which motorway services are NOT.DO NOT ignore any council/trafic warden tickets as they are legally inforced...Basically ignore any letters and any calls or door knocks just say i will go to court.I would say in honestly The conpany i worked for never took any case to court they just hoped people would just pay up..

You're right - private land = civil case, council land = criminal case. I would still cover yourself by issuing them with the notice outlined above. This then means that if they try to take you to court they can't as you have conditionally agreed to pay so there is no controversy. This letter has been proven to work hundreds if not thousands of times.