Our contribution to the uk economy

[2cv]

If motorhome users were the same as other visitors to places we would not be discriminated against in the way we are. Unfortunately a small minority cause annoyance to others in various ways, meaning that all of us do meet with restrictions. I’d say that if people just parked and didn’t indulge in other things we’d be welcome in the same way as other visitors.
Activities that I suspect cause annoyance;
Staying for more than a night.
Inconsideration when parking, taking several spaces.
Setting up camp, with chairs, tables and awnings.
Running engines or generators.
Improper waste disposal.
Lighting fires.

 

[Fisherman]

If motorhome users were the same as other visitors to places we would not be discriminated against in the way we are. Unfortunately a small minority cause annoyance to others in various ways, meaning that all of us do meet with restrictions. I’d say that if people just parked and didn’t indulge in other things we’d be welcome in the same way as other visitors.
Activities that I suspect cause annoyance;
Staying for more than a night.
Inconsideration when parking, taking several spaces.
Setting up camp, with chairs, tables and awnings.
Running engines or generators.
Improper waste disposal.
Lighting fires.

Cars can park for as long as they like in many car parks no time limits are applied.
I have seen weekly rates applied in many car parks.
Car parking spaces are to small meaning that Motorhomes have to take up more than one space.
I regularly see cars taking up two spaces.
If proper spaces were provided in more car parks (at additional cost) then this could be prevented.
Simply put up signage that awnings, chairs and generators, and fires are not allowed, fining those who contravene these regs, as is the case already in many car parks. We don’t ban all cars because some car drivers break car parking rules.
Improper waste disposal is a problem, and I don’t condone tipping such waste inappropriately.
But in most towns, villages and rural areas there are no provisions.
Providing more facilities for waste disposal either free or at a cost, would go a long way to solving this problem.

Ask yourself, is the incidence of these issues greater or smaller in countries were proper provisions are made 2cv.
I bet that there are far less waste tipping etc in Europe than over here, because they have done what we should years ago.

 

[GreggBear]

In the House of Loonies..sorry Commons !

But seriously space and vandalism are also significant issues in UK

But it will all get better soon ?????

I can't see how space is a factor, when massive carparks are all empty every night while displaying "no overnight parking" signs. That's either a money issue or a mess/damage issue but not space....

 

[Channa]

Fair point channa.
But parking provisions are made for cars, sometimes at a cost.
Cars are able to park in thousands of car parks that we are not allowed to at any cost.
Also more vat is paid on Motorhomes than cars.
The average price of a new car is less than half that of a Motorhome.
Also most Motorhome owners are car owners paying road tax and insurance twice,
Thus contributing far more to government coffers than car drivers
.

I think you missed my point
More VAT is payable on a new motorhome down to its price , but we are not talking single units possibly ? 20 new cars registerd for each motorhome the vat collected is far more

Also there is the slight problem VAT is a centrally collected tax no guarantee local authorities see any of it

As for twice the insurance other than IPT the government don't see any additional revenue ultimately road fund licence we pay but that is to use the highways which we do not park a car or van ( the money isn't ringfenced per se but is still relevant) RFL insurance is an integral part of our hobby

For aires, which my personal view can present problems, Nothing or little will happen until the minds are won of local authority long tome before that will happen if it ever will

Channa

 

[Fisherman]

I think you missed my point
More VAT is payable on a new motorhome down to its price , but we are not talking single units possibly ? 20 new cars registerd for each motorhome the vat collected is far more

Also there is the slight problem VAT is a centrally collected tax no guarantee local authorities see any of it

As for twice the insurance other than IPT the government don't see any additional revenue ultimately road fund licence we pay but that is to use the highways which we do not park a car or van ( the money isn't ringfenced per se but is still relevant) RFL insurance is an integral part of our hobby

For aires, which my personal view can present problems, Nothing or little will happen until the minds are won of local authority long tome before that will happen if it ever will

Channa

No I did not miss your point channa.

My point is we pay more into the system and get less out.
Yes 20 cars or more are produced than Motorhomes, but the provisions made for cars far outweigh the provisions made for Motorhomes. In many places there are no provisions whatsoever for Motorhomes.

Yes vat is centrally collected as are most other taxes, but ultimately some of these taxes are paid into local councils, and this is were 80% of their revenue comes from.

I reckon aires would be a lot better than nothing, because in most areas that is what provided currently, nothing.

The fact is each year there are more and more Motorhomes, and less places for them to park.

 

[caledonia]

I don’t find a shortage of places to stop or empty waste. Lots of campsites ranging from small club sites to large all singing and dancing ones and they offer waste disposal at a small fee and some even let you do it for free. We have hundreds of poi’s on here to choose from and more and more aire type things being provided by councils and local communities ie Hawick, Lochinver, West Harris Trust, Rothiemurcus estate, Shieldag, Lidl car parks to name but a few. I’m a glass half full type of guy so maybe see things a bit differently. I find the fun in my hobby is exploring new places and finding nice places to park.

 

[Pauljenny]

Has anyone noticed that cars are becoming bigger ? Cleos, Fiestas, Micras.. Even Minis.... Or is it just my personal view?
I was going to type.. Is it just me?..
Yeh, OK, I know I'm a little chubby...
But more obese people, means bigger cars.
The standard parking space remains unchanged, though?

 

[Fisherman]

Has anyone noticed that cars are becoming bigger ? Cleos, Fiestas, Micras.. Eve Minis.... Or is it just my personal view?
I was going to type.. Is it just me?..
Yeh, OK, I know I'm a little chubby...
But more obese people, means bigger cars.
The standard parking space remains unchanged, though?

Like it, minis are more like maxis now.
Jersey is the worse place I have ever seen for car parking spaces.
I hired a fiesta and could hardly fit into the spaces provided there.

 

[mariesnowgoose]

Like it, minis are more like maxis now.
Jersey is the worse place I have ever seen for car parking spaces.
I hired a fiesta and could hardly fit into the spaces provided there.

On an island the size of Jersey it should all be bikes, horse & cart or Shank's Pony :lol-053:

(or maybe a small, half decent public bus service - I'm sure the residents have enough funds between them to pay for it's upkeep - much greener than loads of individual personal vehicles )

 

[Fisherman]

On an island the size of Jersey it should all be bikes, horse & cart or Shank's Pony :lol-053:

There are to many cars on the island Marie.
They actually banned children being driven to school to help with congeston.
But being a wealthy lot, some of the jersey beans simply bought cars for their older kids.
That way they drove themselves to school.:lol-049:

 

[mariesnowgoose]

There are to many cars on the island Marie.
They actually banned children being driven to school to help with congeston.
But being a wealthy lot, some of the jersey beans simply bought cars for their older kids.
That way they drove themselves to school.:lol-049:

I know you are being ironic, and we all shrug our shoulders at that sort of behaviour, but to me it only highlights exactly what is wrong with the world.

 

[Fisherman]

I know you are being ironic, and we all shrug our shoulders at that sort of behaviour, but to me it only highlights exactly what is wrong with the world.

Jersey is unique in many ways Marie, and this was around twenty years ago.
I don't know if things have changed, but petrol was only 50 pence a GALLON then.
Hopefully things have changed.

What I found crazy were the high amount of high performance cars on their roads.
The fastest you could legally drive was on the six mile road at 40mph, I mean whats the point.

Even worse Monaco were every second car is a Ferrari or equivalent with nothing but traffic jams.
But then I suppose once you leave Monaco the roads would be a lot better.

 

[2cv]

Cars can park for as long as they like in many car parks no time limits are applied.
I have seen weekly rates applied in many car parks.
Car parking spaces are to small meaning that Motorhomes have to take up more than one space.
I regularly see cars taking up two spaces.
If proper spaces were provided in more car parks (at additional cost) then this could be prevented.
Simply put up signage that awnings, chairs and generators, and fires are not allowed, fining those who contravene these regs, as is the case already in many car parks. We don’t ban all cars because some car drivers break car parking rules.
Improper waste disposal is a problem, and I don’t condone tipping such waste inappropriately.
But in most towns, villages and rural areas there are no provisions.
Providing more facilities for waste disposal either free or at a cost, would go a long way to solving this problem.

Ask yourself, is the incidence of these issues greater or smaller in countries were proper provisions are made 2cv.
I bet that there are far less waste tipping etc in Europe than over here, because they have done what we should years ago.

I agree that in car parks more motorhome spaces would be good, as would the banning of the activities described. It is easier though to simply erect a height barrier though, so this is what happens.
Away from car parks, many of the miscreant activities are undertaken by a small minority of motorhome users, and this leads to the loss of excellent parking and overnight places to all.
In countries where there is proper provision of facilities the problem still exists. Take for example the recently reported police activities in Spain clearing coastal encampments.
There are actually lots of facilities for motorhomes in UK in the form of small CLs and CSs, but many are not prepared to use such occasionally.
As an example of the problem take a landlord who makes his car park available overnight to customers in motorhomes. It only takes one to run a generator and the facility is very likely to be lost to all.

 

[Fisherman]

I agree that in car parks more motorhome spaces would be good, as would the banning of the activities described. It is easier though to simply erect a height barrier though, so this is what happens.
Away from car parks, many of the miscreant activities are undertaken by a small minority of motorhome users, and this leads to the loss of excellent parking and overnight places to all.
In countries where there is proper provision of facilities the problem still exists. Take for example the recently reported police activities in Spain clearing coastal encampments.
There are actually lots of facilities for motorhomes in UK in the form of small CLs and CSs, but many are not prepared to use such occasionally.
As an example of the problem take a landlord who makes his car park available overnight to customers in motorhomes. It only takes one to run a generator and the facility is very likely to be lost to all.

Why is it 2cv no matter what others do within carparks does not result in bans for cars.
I have witnessed terrible behaviour from idiots in car parks, and yes including a motorhomer who I spotted sitting out on his chair with awning out.
I then noticed a sign on the side of his van, indicating that it had been hired.
It looks like they were simply ignorant of our behaviour in such public places.

But using your logic just about every carpark would be closed due to misuse by car drivers.
Or is it one rule for us and a different rule for everyone else.
Many carparks now have CCTV, and those who don't abide by the rules can be monitored and dealt with.

Obviously there will be problems on the continent, but at least they are better prepared than we are.
And these people had other options, not available in many cases to us over here.

But I am optimistic that things will gradually improve in future years, but sadly we many not be around to benefit.

 

[2cv]

Why is it 2cv no matter what others do within carparks does not result in bans for cars.
I have witnessed terrible behaviour from idiots in car parks, and yes including a motorhomer who I spotted sitting out on his chair with awning out.
I then noticed a sign on the side of his van, indicating that it had been hired.
It looks like they were simply ignorant of our behaviour in such public places.

But using your logic just about every carpark would be closed due to misuse by car drivers.
Or is it one rule for us and a different rule for everyone else.
Many carparks now have CCTV, and those who don't abide bye the rules can be monitored and dealt with.

Obviously there will be problems on the continent, but at least they are better prepared than we are.
And these people had other options, not available in many cases to us over here.

But I am optimistic that things will gradually improve in future years, but sadly we many not be around to benefit.

The reason that misbehaviour by those in cars does not lead to bans is that they are by far the majority of car park users (possibly hence the name!). As motorhome users we are a very small minority, so any unwelcome behaviour can be dealt with easily with little or no effect on most people. The fact that mostly our vehicles are relatively high makes excluding us relatively simple.

 

[Fisherman]

The reason that misbehaviour by those in cars does not lead to bans is that they are by far the majority of car park users (possibly hence the name!). As motorhome users we are a very small minority, so any unwelcome behaviour can be dealt with easily with little or no effect on most people. The fact that mostly our vehicles are relatively high makes excluding us relatively simple.

You are explaining the status quo 2cv, of which I fully understand.
But that does not make it right does it.
And we should be treated in an equitable manner, instead of being singled out for special treatment.
The difference between us, seems to be that you are ofey with what happens,
And I am not.

As I say I think things will improve as the years pass. Each year thousands of new vans go on the road, our voice will get stronger. We have one of the lowest rates of Motorhome use in the EU, but this is changing. It’s reckoned that 2019 may see for the first time more Motorhomes than caravans sold in the uk, times are changing.

 

[maureenandtom]

It's a year or more since I did any active campaigning with local authorities though I used to do a lot but when I did …

… always, without exception, local authority spokesmen would cite public disquiet in the form of complaints as reasoning for restricting motorhomes.

Never, ever, were any of the authorities I questioned able to provide evidence of complaints in the volumes they claimed. Somewhere on here I listed a few of them. It would be common for authorities to claim they had received hundreds of complaints but then be able to produce only one or two. The famouus “Huttoft” - the council claimed over 200. When pressed the council produced about 25 for the whole of Lincolnshire – I think none about motorhomes for Huttoft. All councils were the same when someone senior enough decides to make a stand of some sort and ... "Now let's think of a reason. I know, let's says we've had lots of complaints." I think probably Keswick is the most recent - the press even published a fake picture of "our" rubbish to illustrate teh council's case.

I don't have to go on. The public disquiet we are so keen to blame on ourselves does not exist. Of course there are always one or two who will complain about us but there is probably no human acativity which doesn't attract a grumble from grumbling people.

 

[2cv]

You are explaining the status quo 2cv, of which I fully understand.
But that does not make it right does it.
And we should be treated in an equitable manner, instead of being singled out for special treatment.
The difference between us, seems to be that you are ofey with what happens,
And I am not.

As I say I think things will improve as the years pass. Each year thousands of new vans go on the road, our voice will get stronger. We have one of the lowest rates of Motorhome use in the EU, but this is changing. It’s reckoned that 2019 may see for the first time more Motorhomes than caravans sold in the uk, times are changing.

It would be great if your forecasts prove to be correct. My view is that whilst a few do get us tarred with the same brush and there is a degree of resentment by quite a few of the general populace many of the restrictions are instigated by those with a financial interest in getting motorhomes to use expensive and unnecessary sites.

 

[Fisherman]

It would be great if your forecasts prove to be correct. My view is that whilst a few do get us tarred with the same brush and there is a degree of resentment by quite a few of the general populace many of the restrictions are instigated by those with a financial interest in getting motorhomes to use expensive and unnecessary sites.

Now we agree on that one 2cv, good point.

I have stated on here already its a pity that the organisations who represent us (or claim to) have self interest at heart.
I am a C&MH club member, and I reckon their sites are excellent, Our grandson loves them.
But they did not even reply to an email I sent them last year pointing out that their tours only include campsites and CLs.
I pointed out to them that we enjoy the freedom that 'Wild Camping' offers us.
They may have changed their name, but they are still the same organisation.

Possibly as time passes some young person with a real bee in their bonnet will start up an organisation purely for us.
If they do I will happily pay my dues, and possibly even assist in a minor way.

 

[antiquesam]

I have no objection to towns not wanting us to overnight as there are a lot of out of town spots and CL's and CS's but it would be nice to have parking facilities during the day. We visited the Back to Backs in Birmingham today and had to request special permission to use the lorry park while we visited. Coventry council website suggest ringing in advance to park a motorhome.