Losing the plot!

[MichaelU]

I was dismayed to see two new "No Camping" signs appear in Castleton, (not a brilliant car park for wild camping) and Monsall Head, a brilliant car park for wild camping until this clear ban went up.

In chatting to locals in both areas, their comments suggested that the decision to post these signs was apparently due to repeated requests from motorhome owners for clarification on the legality of overnight parking repeatedly being made to the owners of the car parks. They decided the best way to stop the debate was an outright ban.

I've always believed our community of wild campers was just that. A little wild, on the edge of strict definition and believers in a free lifestyle. We're conscientious and law abiding with a passion for our freedoms and for parking in those quiet and discreet places that offer us a reminder of a bygone age perhaps.

That some owners and writers in this wider forum have over the years pursued the wrong councils and owners to the point where they have apparently become thoroughly fed up with motorhome owners is deeply sad and self defeating. Sad and insecure owners have cost us our freedoms rather than simply act a that little bit ignorant of interpretation and enjoy bending the rule a bit.

Thankfully Castleton has the broken road unsigned and freely used by motorhome owners but Monsall has now gone thanks to us!

W

 

[churchie]

I have a theory

Putting a No Overnight Parking sign up gives leverage to the authorities locals etc who might no want you to overnight. Somebody might appear knock on your door and ask you if you can read. Job done you move on or do not even bother to stop. In an urban area I can this being very effective whether the sign is legal or not.
Heres the but, In the remote areas of Scotland what are the chances of somebody knocking on your door !
Once in the Newborough Forest on Angelsey We were asked not to stay another night by the Forestry Commissiom Warden.
This was his reason he stated I have no issue with you staying here as I know you were here last night but please could you not stop another night as there are youths camping in the dunes and I need to remove them as they are doing damage. If you are still here they will try and stay.
All very curtious and having had that explanation we left.
So my theory is in remote WILD Camping Areas these signs are a form of leverage to remove undesirable should the need arise.
What are your thoughts and please do not jump down my throat its a theory for discussion

 

[John H]

Putting a No Overnight Parking sign up gives leverage to the authorities locals etc who might no want you to overnight. Somebody might appear knock on your door and ask you if you can read. Job done you move on or do not even bother to stop. In an urban area I can this being very effective whether the sign is legal or not.
Heres the but, In the remote areas of Scotland what are the chances of somebody knocking on your door !
Once in the Newborough Forest on Angelsey We were asked not to stay another night by the Forestry Commissiom Warden.
This was his reason he stated I have no issue with you staying here as I know you were here last night but please could you not stop another night as there are youths camping in the dunes and I need to remove them as they are doing damage. If you are still here they will try and stay.
All very curtious and having had that explanation we left.
So my theory is in remote WILD Camping Areas these signs are a form of leverage to remove undesirable should the need arise.
What are your thoughts and please do not jump down my throat its a theory for discussion

I agree - and add the following. In South-east Spain last winter we were politely informed by the police that the reason they didn't want motorhomes parking overnight in remote coves was because of smugglers (of people and drugs) who used those coves at night for their nefarious purposes. If we stayed we would get in the way and possibly put ourselves in danger. The thing is that if you are polite then most of the time the police/authorities will give you advice on the best alternatives (in Spain that is almost anywhere inland) so the obvious thing to do is enjoy the day at the beach and then move to where nobody will bother you. The problem is that there are always some who kick up a fuss and spoil it for the rest of us - I can think of the woman who got very uppity and told the policeman that he couldn't move her on because she was expecting guests for a barbecue or the man who insisted that it was a free country and he'd park where he liked - and so on and so on.

There will be others who violently disagree - but I thought you needed some support before the flak started flying!

 

[Deleted member 13543]

Putting a No Overnight Parking sign up gives leverage to the authorities locals etc who might no want you to overnight. Somebody might appear knock on your door and ask you if you can read. Job done you move on or do not even bother to stop. In an urban area I can this being very effective whether the sign is legal or not.
Heres the but, In the remote areas of Scotland what are the chances of somebody knocking on your door !

None, I hope, because that's where we're heading in September!! I've noticed a lot of the dreaded yellow signs appearing in laybys up there on Google Streetview, which was done in 2009. Heaven knows what it's like now! We're pretty new to wildcamping, and I found your post very reassuring, - thank you for it! :wave:

 

[MOS]

KP just a bit off topic but check out small motorhomes forum for free meet up at the herb center september

rite back to the plot (or not)

 

[churchie]

I think you have to ask yourself who are these people who check to see whether you have parked were there is a no overnighting sign. In my experience it is usually the police who find you, check out your number plate realise your an upstanding member of the public and leave you in peace. I have encountered the police in the Forest of Galloway doing exactly that, also on Anglesey. I am not saying people have not had different experiences but this is mine.
There are different factions on this site.
Those who wish to park up in towns and urban areas within a stones throw of all the usual creature comforts and. I can see they can get a rough deal from the locals "motorhomes they should be down the road on the local caravan site" Aires might be the answer but for me I do not want to be lined up close to other vans, again personal choice
Then there is my gang, go to places to be on our own, have a silent honda generator carry two toilet cassettes and extra water, who wish to wild camp. Again not for everbody.

There are other factions that probably cross over and do a bit of both.

So I think my point is it is probably easier to "Wild Camp" and there is more tolerance to turning a blind eye to those signs as long as you are sensible and leave the place better than you found it if possible.

 

[maureenandtom]

Have I misunderstood something?

I read MichaelU as saying the no parking signs were in response to us asking if it was ok to park. Not due to anybody arguing or overstaying welcome or anything like that - just asking if it was ok to stay.

I read Michael as saying we shouldn't ask. If there's nothing to say we shouldn't park - why ask? I read Michael as saying that only the sad and insecure would ask.

Michael, have I misunderstood you?

I'm an old soldier, like some here, and we never ask. If you ask then somebody might say no and this time, Michael says, somebody has.

 

[John H]

Have I misunderstood something?

I read MichaelU as saying the no parking signs were in response to us asking if it was ok to park. Not due to anybody arguing or overstaying welcome or anything like that - just asking if it was ok to stay.

I read Michael as saying we shouldn't ask. If there's nothing to say we shouldn't park - why ask? I read Michael as saying that only the sad and insecure would ask.

Michael, have I misunderstood you?

I'm an old soldier, like some here, and we never ask. If you ask then somebody might say no and this time, Michael says, somebody has.

Michael can obviously answer for himself if he wishes but I am not sure what point you are making here. Yes, I read Michael's post in the same way as you but that does not negate the later comments about whether to argue or not. It is all, in my view, part of the same debate - ie it is not so much what you are saying/asking but the way in which you say/ask it that determines the end result. Being discreet and polite wins all the time in my experience.

 

[maureenandtom]

Oh good, then I haven't misunderstood. Michael says, paraphrasing, “There's no sign. Why ask?” I agree.

For several reasons. Chiefly, and I'm depending on information given by John Thompson and others on here, that by parking overnight, we commit no offence. The offence is commited by the landowner permitting us to stay. If we ask permission and get it then the landowner is possibly committing an offence. It is in the landowner's own interest to deny us permission. It is in everybody's interest just to park and say “Sorry,” if need be later. I agree with Michael, don't ask.

Michael also says, though not so clearly to me, don't approach councils to provide facilities. I disagree. It's a point of view that I hadn't thought of and is worthy of consideration – not least as a courtesy to Michael for having taken the trouble to give us his slightly controversial opinion.

Michael, these are two different situations. I agree with your opinion on the one but disagree with the other.

 

[John H]

Didn't see any reference to not approaching councils about providing facilities in the original post.

 

[maureenandtom]

Didn't see any reference to not approaching councils about providing facilities in the original post.

Oh yes, I think so. Like I said, it's not said so clearly but why else would we be approaching councils? The simple question, "Can I overnight here?" is asking for facilities, isn't it?

. . .
That some owners and writers in this wider forum have over the years pursued the wrong councils and owners to the point where they have apparently become thoroughly fed up with motorhome owners is deeply sad and self defeating. Sad and insecure owners . . .

W

It's Michael's opinion and it is good to have a variety of opinions. Maybe, we should live with the world as it is. So what if they have Aires all over the place except here? Don't ask for them. You'll only get councils thorougly fed up and they'll ban parking everywhere.

It's not my opinion; in fact it's so alien to my own point of view that I'd like to see discussion on it. Should we approach local authorities and tourist organisations or should we just leave them to it? Actually, I would go further - do we have a duty to approach them? It's our money they spend.

I see no contradiction in my view that the scenario in the originating post of a car park (privately owned in Michael's post) where there was no signposted restriction would need people to query whether or not we can stay there. Unrestricted car park? The assumption has to be that we can.

 

[John H]

Oh yes, I think so. Like I said, it's not said so clearly but why else would we be approaching councils? The simple question, "Can I overnight here?" is asking for facilities, isn't it?

No, I don't think it is - but if I accept what you say then you are now saying that you agree with him when he says don't ask but also disagreeing with him when he says dont ask!