Gas Tank Gauge LED Type

[Deleted member 967]

We were away for a few days and it was cold outside so we had everything going plus the gas generator as we had no hookup.

I set off with three quarters of a tank of gas. (approx 50 litres).

On Friday morning after breakfast with heater and generator going. We lost our gas supply. I checked the gauge inside the van and the red light was on showing it was empty.

We went to refill the tank which should have taken about 70 litres and it shut off at 48 litres and the gauge then showed the tank to be full.

At first I put the problem down to a faulty gauge but on contemplation I have began to wonder if it was caused by drawing a very large volume of gas off. If the outlet had frozen up and that had given the impression of running out of gas and the supply cut itself off.

We did try the gas ring after the cut off and it flared and burnt yellow. The rear fire wouldn't light so we gave up and went for gas.

Any thoughts?

 

[Deleted member 967]

A basic question John.
I take it you are on Propane and not Butane or if on an Autogas or fuel station type it has a Propane mix

Hi *****

Since the problems we had with Flogas (sooting up burners) earlier this year we have been using only Shell (Calor) Autogas which Calor themselves informed me was the same as the Red bottle (Propane).

 

[rickboy]

Hi *****

Since the problems we had with Flogas (sooting up burners) earlier this year we have been using only Shell (Calor) Autogas which Calor themselves informed me was the same as the Red bottle (Propane).

Most likely butane and other gasses which will not gas at lower temp and have accumulated at the bottom of the tank.
I have seen this a lot when I go skiing.
Try to use complete tank up in warmer weather before refilling with know good propane.Not so easy this time of year I guess.
Good luck

 

[maingate]

Hi John,

If it happens again, check the pipework closest to the LPG tank/bottle (whichever system you have). If the pipework is frosted ie; white, then this could be an indication that liquid gas particles are being carried into your system. The more full the vessel, the less space for gasifying the Propane.

Two other things to consider are:

1 - The pipework diameter is a touch too small when all appliances are on

2 - The bottle/tank temperature is very low and a bit of indirect warmth might benefit you. I realise that this is very difficult to accomplish in a M/home as gas supplies must be kept apart from the habitation area.

 

[Deleted member 967]

I have no direct experience with these fuel station gas fill ups, but I read somewhere that the colder the Country of fill up, the stronger the Propane to Butane mix and it gets stronger in the colder weather in each Country than in the warmer Summer months. It seems that it is a mix of Butane & Propane.

We wrote to Calor with our problem earlier this year and got a reply back saying the gas they supplied as AUTOGAS was exactly the same gas as in the Red Propane bottles.

I know there could be some other gasses in the mix but that would be the same for the red bottle.

Possibly Flogas have mixed gasses in their supply and as suggested we cleared most of the gas out after the flogas problem but not all about 5 or 6 litres left in the tank as the best fill I got was just over 60 litres. Probably not enough to get rid of everything.

The gauge was the main problem in that it showed the tank to be empty when it wasn't. Has anyone else had problems with these gauges that attach to the tank gauge and have 4 green and one reg led.

Does anyone know of a better display that would give a more accurate reading of the tank contents rather that if the light goes out then a quarter of the tank has been used but you do not know how soon the next one is going to go out.

I have just tried lighting the heater this morning and it burned very badly for about a minute and I was about to turn it off. As I was watching the flame as I turned it down, it suddenly went to the correct blue colour and continued that way back to full burner, so it looks like there was something in the pipework that stopped the flow. One suggestion that has been made is ice or another was dirt. This is a new tank fitted by MTH gas (Now gone bust) in June.

 

[maingate]

John,

I have heard this before about different makes of gas being inferior.

I think if you check up, you will find that there is a British standard that will have to be adhered to. Probably a European one as well.

If there are no rigid standards in the supply of explosive and highly flammable gases then I will show my backside in Fenwicks window.

Some people swear blind that cheap supermarket fuel is inferior and has caused them problems but I doubt it very much. Lack of maintenance is more likely.

 

[Kontiki]

I have heard of people having this problem before, somebody commented on the mix of butane & propane which varies from country to country, the UK autogas is supposed to be 100% propane. Have you filled up abroad? Somebody gave an example of filling up in a country where the mix is 50/50, when you fill your bottle for example 100 ltrs & use half in cold weather then refill you then end up with 75% butane & 25% propane This to me assumes that the gases don't mix & only the propane burns in cold weather Does anybody know if the autogas is a mix of both can they separate in cold weather I know that you can freeze something with alcohol in it & the water will freeze leaving the alcohol unfrozen.
If it is a problem with the gas freezing all I can suggest is head south for somewhere warmer.

 

[fugglestick]

I have heard of people having this problem before, somebody commented on the mix of butane & propane which varies from country to country, the UK autogas is supposed to be 100% propane. Have you filled up abroad? Somebody gave an example of filling up in a country where the mix is 50/50, when you fill your bottle for example 100 ltrs & use half in cold weather then refill you then end up with 75% butane & 25% propane This to me assumes that the gases don't mix & only the propane burns in cold weather Does anybody know if the autogas is a mix of both can they separate in cold weather I know that you can freeze something with alcohol in it & the water will freeze leaving the alcohol unfrozen.
If it is a problem with the gas freezing all I can suggest is head south for somewhere warmer.

I have used Flogas for 10 years on vehicles, and never had this problem, even with the gas tanks exposed to frosty weather. I can assure you Autogas is mostly propane, with maybe 5% or less butane. So I don't think you are looking at refrigerated gas problem / that area. Bottles are fitted with an overfill float inside, so that may be a possibility, especially if the bottle has been rough handled or dropped etc. or more likely the outlet valve / gauge telling lies, and bare in mind the gauges are only a guide and not too accurate. If you know the bottle is empty, and doesn't fill to 80% or so, then it looks like a overfill valve problem. There isn't really a lot more can go wrong. Hope that helps.

 

[rickboy]

Gas guage.

We wrote to Calor with our problem earlier this year and got a reply back saying the gas they supplied as AUTOGAS was exactly the same gas as in the Red Propane bottles.

I know there could be some other gasses in the mix but that would be the same for the red bottle.

Possibly Flogas have mixed gasses in their supply and as suggested we cleared most of the gas out after the flogas problem but not all about 5 or 6 litres left in the tank as the best fill I got was just over 60 litres. Probably not enough to get rid of everything.

The gauge was the main problem in that it showed the tank to be empty when it wasn't. Has anyone else had problems with these gauges that attach to the tank gauge and have 4 green and one reg led.

Does anyone know of a better display that would give a more accurate reading of the tank contents rather that if the light goes out then a quarter of the tank has been used but you do not know how soon the next one is going to go out.

I have just tried lighting the heater this morning and it burned very badly for about a minute and I was about to turn it off. As I was watching the flame as I turned it down, it suddenly went to the correct blue colour and continued that way back to full burner, so it looks like there was something in the pipework that stopped the flow. One suggestion that has been made is ice or another was dirt. This is a new tank fitted by MTH gas (Now gone bust) in June.

If it's a pressure guage(as opposed to a float).The temp makes a HUGE difference.It should have calibration for various temp ranges.
My cylinder pressure guage shows 10 Kg/cm2
c10 deg 35 full
30 68 full
40 100 full
Rick

 

[Kontiki]

Although autogas in the UK is propane on the continent it varies from country to country & also from summer to winter. This can be up to a 50:50 mix.
Found this off LaikaClub Website <Another minor problem is that if you have a Propane pressure gauge fitted to your system, and you are using mixed Autogas, then the gauge will not give you a correct reading.>
If you haven't filled up in Europe then none of this is relevant though

 

[Deleted member 967]

The Saga Continues

We were away for a few days and it was cold outside so we had everything going plus the gas generator as we had no hookup.

I set off with three quarters of a tank of gas. (approx 50 litres).

On Friday morning after breakfast with heater and generator going. We lost our gas supply. I checked the gauge inside the van and the red light was on showing it was empty.

We went to refill the tank which should have taken about 70 litres and it shut off at 48 litres and the gauge then showed the tank to be full.

At first I put the problem down to a faulty gauge but on contemplation I have began to wonder if it was caused by drawing a very large volume of gas off. If the outlet had frozen up and that had given the impression of running out of gas and the supply cut itself off.

We did try the gas ring after the cut off and it flared and burnt yellow. The rear fire wouldn't light so we gave up and went for gas.

Any thoughts?

Well guys the saga of our gas supply continues. We have been away for a few days. OK the first night then it got very cold minus 1.7 and the gas almost went out. I knew this time I had plenty gas and it was propane so it should have gassed down to minus 40. Next morning to get it going we fished out the spare camping stove and boiled the kettle and poured it over the regulator. Instant pressure resumption. That evening the pressure started to drop again another application and a lag with cotton wool and a plastic bag got it working. Again toward morning at minus 2.7 it was just about out again. Same trick worked again but this time occasionally there was a louder roaring sound and the cooker burners would flare out and burn yellow tips.

This has got to be freezing of the regulator diaphragm. The regulator is mounted on its side and there seems to be a fine pipe from the body pointing toward the ground. I have used propane in the red 47kg bottles down to minus 20 and never had a frozen regulator. The old Calor regs had two holes that you fitted so they pointed down to drain condensation, the regulator being horizontal. I have looked at another regulator with the pipe on it but the pipe end seems sealed. Does anyone know if this is the drain and are you supposed to cut or remove the pipe? the one on my van has a red plastic cap on the end of the fine pipe. Another thought is that the regulator is not up to the job of supplying all of my needs in cold weather. I always in the past have used the large propane regulator not the standard one.

 

[maingate]

John,

When I got my present van, I noticed that it had been put back to the old system, with the regulator on the bottle instead of a bulkhead. My regulator on the last van (56 reg.) had the new system and it failed in cold weather. I would urge anyone to go back to the old system and avoid potential problems.

Yours is a strange situation because as far as I understand it, a regulator either works or does not, there is no in between.

When mine failed, I was using the van for work purposes and had a full range of electrical back up as I nearly always stayed on CL`s or CS`s. I believe alternative kit should always be carried, even if your wilding. You can always find a cheap site instead of going home.

 

[Deleted member 967]

John,

When I got my present van, I noticed that it had been put back to the old system, with the regulator on the bottle instead of a bulkhead. My regulator on the last van (56 reg.) had the new system and it failed in cold weather. I would urge anyone to go back to the old system and avoid potential problems.

Yours is a strange situation because as far as I understand it, a regulator either works or does not, there is no in between.

When mine failed, I was using the van for work purposes and had a full range of electrical back up as I nearly always stayed on CL`s or CS`s. I believe alternative kit should always be carried, even if your wilding. You can always find a cheap site instead of going home.

Thanks Maingate. I have known regulators freeze in the past (1982 At -10c to -20c) and as I was certain about the supply this time, I decided to see if it was the regulator and warming just that item up cured (temporarily) the problem. We had been to Conrad Anderson in Birmingham to get a remote oil tank fitted to the gas generator. We then rent to a relatives in Clumber Park and wilded for two days beside their house. We are off again to relatives on Monday/Tuesday so have the motorhome at the house today but the heavy snow last night means lying in it to have a good look at the regulator. I am going to do a web search today to see if I can get more info on the newer regulators.

Can anyone advise if the regulator drain with the red cap should be facing downover and not in its present position?

 

[derekfaeberwick]

I am going to do a web search today to see if I can get more info on the newer regulators.

Hope you get it sorted, let us know what you find out.

Regards, Derek and Wee Burnip.