Elterwater quarry Lake District

[DiAndy]

This location is now subject to a parking charge and no overnighting.
Another bites the dust. :mad2:

 

[Canalsman]

Are you referring to CR Elterwater? There isn't a POI at the quarry...

 

[Deleted member 48021]

CR Elterwater (Cumbria) etc

The site is CR Elterwater (Cumbria) and it has parking meters installed. Similarly to other sites close by on the adjoining common which used to be free parking places. 8 gbp is the over 6 hour charge but no actual mention of "no overnight parking" so presumably allowed if you can afford it - without any facilities provided!
Another site in Keswick has suffered worse. LR Keswick B5289 used to be very popular but now has bold "No overnight parking" signs all along the cul-de-sac. This should therefore be excluded from the POI page. Best option is the lakeside car park (next to Theatre by the Lake) where for 1gbp you can park 7pm to 7am - no restrictions I can see and quiet when I stayed there.
WT High Lodore is derelict and not in current use - so best delete from POI map
I'm guessing the defecating dead beats and litter low life of this world have stuffed us all by their inconsiderate use of such places. Maybe add to the forum advice page "clean up the car park before parking, even if it's not your rubbish" - I always do, in case someone thinks it's me - not a real problem with rubber gloves.

 

[Canalsman]

Thanks for the information.

Regarding the Keswick lay-by, unless the signs make reference to the enforcement mechanism the notices are advisory ...

 

[Deleted member 48021]

Thanks for the information.

Regarding the Keswick lay-by, unless the signs make reference to the enforcement mechanism the notices are advisory ...

So are you suggesting we should ignore it? What happens at 2am when someone knocks you awake and tells you to move on? I had thought about contacting the council to clarify but don't relish the bureaucracy that might be initiated!

 

[Canalsman]

I agree this is difficult.

This section of road was used for many years by motorhomes without apparent issue. I've stayed there myself.

It is certainly possible to take the council to task about the notices but as you say this may be counterproductive.

I tend not to remove locations which remain legal to use and allow individuals to make up their own minds. Do you know if motorhomes continue to overnight here despite the notices?

If not I'd have thought the occasional one night stay by a single motorhome isn't likely to be a problem.

 

[Deleted member 48021]

I agree this is difficult.

This section of road was used for many years by motorhomes without apparent issue. I've stayed there myself.

It is certainly possible to take the council to task about the notices but as you say this may be counterproductive.

I tend not to remove locations which remain legal to use and allow individuals to make up their own minds. Do you know if motorhomes continue to overnight here despite the notices?

If not I'd have thought the occasional one night stay by a single motorhome isn't likely to be a problem.

I passed by there a couple of times subsequently and it was very quiet compared with earlier days! It looks like maybe a couple of vans may have stayed overnight but I was not there at night time so can't confirm. The notices were very prominent and lots of them all along the road so one could not claim not to have seen them. Such a shame we seem to have 'officially' lost this site as it was a popular spot. Maybe I'll contact the council and get clarification - I'll let you know (eventually!)

 

[Deleted member 48021]

I passed by there a couple of times subsequently and it was very quiet compared with earlier days! It looks like maybe a couple of vans may have stayed overnight but I was not there at night time so can't confirm. The notices were very prominent and lots of them all along the road so one could not claim not to have seen them. Such a shame we seem to have 'officially' lost this site as it was a popular spot. Maybe I'll contact the council and get clarification - I'll let you know (eventually!)

Just to keep this post alive, I have contacted the council (twice) but still no reply. Don't hold your breath - watch this space!

 

[Channa]

I personally wouldnt have contacted the council and potentially rattled their cage

DOnt forget if they want to prevent parking they only have ot issue a PSPO which is far easier than passing by laws or issuing TROs

Channa

 

[Deleted member 48021]

I personally wouldnt have contacted the council and potentially rattled their cage

DOnt forget if they want to prevent parking they only have ot issue a PSPO which is far easier than passing by laws or issuing TROs

Channa

What exactly is a PSPO?

 

[mistericeman]

What exactly is a PSPO?

Public space protection order....

Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Act 2014

 

[maureenandtom]

What exactly is a PSPO?

https://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forum...otection-order.html?highlight=beware+the+pspo

There are signs that the public is fighting back. Salford, for example, no longer fines you for (what the coucil says is) swearing. Bristol (I htnk) students (I think) organised a drinks street party defying the council ban on public drinking. Bedford cyclists are complaining that a ban on cycliing on the highway is not lawful. And there are others.

 

[mickymost]

Thanks for the information.

Regarding the Keswick lay-by, unless the signs make reference to the enforcement mechanism the notices are advisory ...

Maybe a few vans should attempt a stopover to see what action gets taken if you say no enforcement action could legally be taken just an idea?

 

[maureenandtom]

Maybe a few vans should attempt a stopover to see what action gets taken if you say no enforcement action could legally be taken just an idea?

It has worked in the past. There's no great appetite here for direct action and the successes have been limited - probably because we rarely use such action. There was limited success at Huttoft and that great bastion of motorhome hate - Scarborough - had to give up on Royal Albert Drive. Been a one or two others too.

 

[maureenandtom]

Maybe a few vans should attempt a stopover to see what action gets taken if you say no enforcement action could legally be taken just an idea?

I've learned that a small number of motorhomers have taken direct action against a PSPO banning overnight parking at Leeming Bar claiming that the PSPO is unlawful in that it does not comply with legislation. With a limited success. North Yorks Council have temporarily suspended enforcing the PSPO while it takes legal advice.

The PSPO is aimed at overnighting trucks at the industrial estate there but, to avoid discrimination accusations, it includes all vehicles - including motorhomes.

The claims that the PSPO is unlawful are that 1. - PSPOs must not restict otherwise lawful use of the highway. This apparently is a specific requirement and a TRO or byelaw must be used - not a PSPO. The second is that signs on the highway must be authorised by central government and signs for the PSPO are not authorised. The authorising document is called the TSRGD2016. And that translates as Traffic Signs Regulation something or other.

This might have implications for other councils who have used PSPO for traffic regulation. Brighton and Hove for a start and Rother; I know there are others but don't come to mind right now.

 

[Deleted member 48021]

Response from council...

I've now heard back from the authority with the following (predictable?) response...

"I am writing in response to your query regarding parking near Portinscale.
The “NO OVERNIGHT PARKING” signs have been erected by Cumbria County Council and in agreement with Keswick Town Council as a result of the persistent and long-term overnight parking of camper vans. Such parking had become detrimental to the area (litter, public health concerns) and had a resultant impact on parking availability for people who wish to spend an hour or two in the area. The area is not a campsite or encampment, but it had effectively become so.
The restriction is not enforceable at this point in time, but is being monitored. Should overnight parking persist and continue to be a problem, then it is possible that this signage will be backed up with a fully enforceable Legal Order."

I have responded by hoping the responsible rest of us (who pick up litter and generally clean areas they stay at) will not be prejudiced by further action by the council and suggested instead they enforce their anti litter/unsanitary practices rules. Am I being optimistic?

 

[maureenandtom]

"The restriction is not enforceable at this point in time, but is being monitored."

The signs are fraudulent. Other councils have been compelled to remove such signs.

 

[Fisherman]

Just read through the thread, makes for sad reading.
Has no one figured out the reason for so many vans being there at any one time just might be because of what is going on nationwide. The fewer the sites that remain available with the growing number of vans being sold, can only lead more of these situations. What’s required is joined up thinking, but all we get is nimbyism at its worse.

The comments about people not being able to stop over due to the vans is bonkers.
If this was the case then why stop overnight parking, or do car owners regularly visit this place at 2am.

It’s just another example of us being treated badly by people in power who have not got a clue, and who hold a bias against us.

 

[caledonia]

Just read through the thread, makes for sad reading.
Has no one figured out the reason for so many vans being there at any one time just might be because of what is going on nationwide. The fewer the sites that remain available with the growing number of vans being sold, can only lead more of these situations. What’s required is joined up thinking, but all we get is nimbyism at its worse.

The comments about people not being able to stop over due to the vans is bonkers.
If this was the case then why stop overnight parking, or do car owners regularly visit this place at 2am.

It’s just another example of us being treated badly by people in power who have not got a clue, and who hold a bias against us.

It’s just another example of vans staying for days on end and turning a car park into a campsite. Arrive late and leave early and leave no trace. If there’s already a van there move on and find your own spot. If people were to use common sense locals would be more tolerant.

 

[Fisherman]

It’s just another example of vans staying for days on end and turning a car park into a campsite. Arrive late and leave early and leave no trace. If there’s already a van there move on and find your own spot. If people were to use common sense locals would be more tolerant.

The way I see this is each year Caledonia thousands of new vans are added with less and less places being made available. Also there seems to be a growing number of vans coming over to the uk from Europe adding to the problem. They are not familiar with what’s going on over here, and have difficulties they would not have back home.

Earlier this month I was parked up in the forestry commission carpark overlooking Stromeferry. I arrived around 4 and I was alone. By 7 there were five of us with two French, a Dutch and a German filling the small carpark. Later on two French vans turned up and had to go elsewhere. I told them to head up to the main road were they should get in ok.

Then again at morvich I was the only Brit on the cemetery car park with two German and a French van.
Ratagan was the same again with me being the only Brit amongst Europeans.

There was no problems at morvich or ratagan with plenty of space, (apart from the wee midges). :mad1:
There are no real problems up here, you can normally find somewhere to go, but not so down south.
I have only once camped in England, I mainly do it up here and twice in Wales.
But if things continue as they are with places being closed, things will only get a whole lot worse.