Cowbar at staithes are trying to ban camping again

[prioryi]

Cowbar Open Space PSPO Consultation

Consultation on the council’s proposals to prohibit antisocial behaviour and nuisance and camping on open space at Cowbar.

www.redcar-cleveland.gov.uk

 

[number14]

Well, I don't know the area or the issues but, sadly, judging by the aggressive tone of the wording, they have already made up their minds and this is just a box ticking exercise.

 

[witzend]

Looking at the pic's there's mostly cars so very likely are sh++ing in the bushes I wonder how much the 2 local campsites are involved

 

[trevskoda]

May be illegal to camp overnight but not to stop and rest, rule 91 highway code.

 

[SquirrellCook]

You do have to wonder as to how this ever got blamed on motorhomes. I'm sure that everyone in this country that has travelled to the seaside or countryside has been caught short. It would make sense to encourage everyone to carry a small spade. I hate to think how many defecate on a crowed beach in the sea.
Burying your waste of any kind at the beach is definitely a Big NO. Though human waste with no plastics isn't a problem in the countryside as long as it's well buried. A word of warning, if the digging is too easy, move to another spot.

 

[thesTig]

Local incomers to Staithes are mainly behind this. Don't like seeing anything but the view they think they've paid for from their 2nd or 3rd (or holiday-let) home.
Still, have completed the survey for what it's worth. Doesn't take long. Obvious answers, with one section to put a good reasoned argument.

 

[groyne]

As a local I've just filled in the very biased survey. I'm not a happy bunny.
I understand about parking along the lane, it's single track with passing places, and pitching tents on the areas outlined, stopping it I can agree with. But to include the carpark, and want a blanket ban is wrong.
And wanting to use the Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Act 2014 is like using a Sledge hammer to crack a Walnut. As was said at the time, the 2014 act would be abused and used as an easy way for those in power to get rid of minor problems.

 

[trevskoda]

Simple thing is to put double yellow lines where others cannot pass, but leave other parts for folk resting, as for folk doing a shiscabab outside, well apart from against the law you could be stung by a nettle.

 

[r4dent]

I have completed the survey which is the most biased survey I have ever seen.
I think whoever complied it was inspired by Sir Humprey's "what answer do you want?" speech abut surveys.

I have also submitted an FOI request for quantification of the "significant volume of complaints" .
The FOI section of the councils web site is currently not working.
You can email a free form FOI to any member of employee of the council. Templates are all over the net.

 

[GreggBear]

Can understand the no parking rule along the road as it isn't suitable for parking big vehicles, but as previously stated, not a good argument for the carpark as well. Used it many times never seen anyone crapping outside, or abusing other people either. I can only assume the people being 'abused' are the moaners that seem to think these areas are part of their own property.
To be fair, I have never seen as many vehicles there as in the photo that accompanied the article....

 

[groyne]

The complaints.

Numerous vehicles including camper vans parked during day and
overnight in passing places, and on verges and grassland at Cowbar
- during August 2021 305 cars (up to 22 on any one day), 120 vans (up
to 15 any one day), and 57 camper vans (up to 13 any one day)
stopped or stayed at Cowbar across 22 days of the month
 Fly-tipping and littering
Campers urinating and defecating in public
 Campers depositing human waste
 Campers depositing chemical waste and “grey water” inappropriately
 Campers sleeping overnight in tents on grassland at Cowbar
 Verbal abuse and threatening behaviour from campers and visitors toward
residents using this public space
- Six incidents of verbal abuse and threats reported to council 17 August-
13 October 2021
 Damage to habitats
A total of 35 incidents, specifically mentioning overnight campers, were reported
to Cleveland police during the 12-month period ending 30 June 2021, and these
are summarised below:
 29 reports concerned people staying overnight (in camper vans): 25 of
these reports were recorded as breaches of COVID restrictions, and these
reported incidents mostly occurred during the period November 2020-April
2021.
 Five reports concerned parking obstructions: three of these reports were
recorded as breaches of COVID restrictions.
 One report concerned people in a motor home ripping fencing down and
building a bonfire.

 

[Fisherman]

Just done survey.

In my six years Motorhoming, I have been told to F off twice, had damage done to my van once, (vandalised mirror),water bombed once, had car horns tooted at us countless times whilst parked up, and threatened damage to our van if we remained, which we did, and no damage was done.
In return, I have never verbally or physically abused anyone, (and I have never witnessed any other van owner behaving that way), I have never left any waste of any kind, I have always tried to be considerate as to were we park, picked up mess left by others, paid all my taxes etc.

And do you what, I reckon I speak for 99% of the posters on here, and the vast majority of Motorhome owners in general. Quite frankly that poster is a disgrace, who ever put it up needs sorting out, and when did wild camping become illegal.

 

[r4dent]

The complaints.

Numerous vehicles including camper vans parked during day and
overnight in passing places, and on verges and grassland at Cowbar
- during August 2021 305 cars (up to 22 on any one day), 120 vans (up
to 15 any one day), and 57 camper vans (up to 13 any one day)
stopped or stayed at Cowbar across 22 days of the month
 Fly-tipping and littering
Campers urinating and defecating in public
 Campers depositing human waste
 Campers depositing chemical waste and “grey water” inappropriately
 Campers sleeping overnight in tents on grassland at Cowbar
 Verbal abuse and threatening behaviour from campers and visitors toward
residents using this public space
- Six incidents of verbal abuse and threats reported to council 17 August-
13 October 2021
 Damage to habitats
A total of 35 incidents, specifically mentioning overnight campers, were reported
to Cleveland police during the 12-month period ending 30 June 2021, and these
are summarised below:
 29 reports concerned people staying overnight (in camper vans): 25 of
these reports were recorded as breaches of COVID restrictions, and these
reported incidents mostly occurred during the period November 2020-April
2021.
 Five reports concerned parking obstructions: three of these reports were
recorded as breaches of COVID restrictions.
 One report concerned people in a motor home ripping fencing down and
building a bonfire.

Yes I read that bit too. BUT the use the word "report" in this document and the word "complaint" in the summary of what has been hapening. My FIO request only asks about formal complaints (small but significant difference). I also have asked for information about the number of individuals and addresses raising these complaints. Also the figures they quoted above relate to different date envelopes (presumably to help present a worse case scenario. Last time I did this (not Cowbar) the response was that during a 12 month period there had been 5 formal complaints from 2 individuals. I emailed the FOI response to every Councillor, together with the exaggerated description contained in the paper being put before council. The paper was withdrawn. All I want is some objective figures. My follow up FOI (if appropraite) will seek information about motorhome / campervan involvement. If some one else wants to do that now I will gladly post a form of words for them to base a request on.

 

[trevskoda]

In my six years Motorhoming, I have been told to F off twice, had damage done to my van once, (vandalised mirror),water bombed once, had car horns tooted at us countless times whilst parked up, and threatened damage to our van if we remained, which we did, and no damage was done.
In return, I have never verbally or physically abused anyone, (and I have never witnessed any other van owner behaving that way), I have never left any waste of any kind, I have always tried to be considerate as to were we park, picked up mess left by others, paid all my taxes etc.

And do you what, I reckon I speak for 99% of the posters on here, and the vast majority of Motorhome owners in general. Quite frankly that poster is a disgrace, who ever put it up needs sorting out, and when did wild camping become illegal.

Just for starters in England.

 

[Fisherman]

Just for starters in England.View attachment 104777

Did they have motorhomes in1824 Trev

 

[winks]

Filled in the survey but I think this is another example of the authorities being late to the party. They should have been acting two years ago. Not surprised these local government leviathans take such a long time to act.

Cheers

H

 

[maureenandtom]

Completed. I believe the council has decided and the survey is simply to give it a semblance of democratic authority. It's not much of a choice of answers to the questions, is it? Do you want the council to take powers to stop people defecating in public? Yes, No, Don't know. The problem being that you don't want people to defecate in public, so no and don't know are not much of an option.

The proper answer is You already have such powers - use them,

Edit: I have sent the council two FoI Requests. With thanks to Groyne and R4Dent not wishing to stand on their toes.

I wish to see, in electronic form, details of all complaints recorded by the council during the the period 1st January 2020 to date , regarding motorhomes and campervans parking up overnight or for a few days along Cowbar Lane and on the adjacent grassland..

I realise that you must redact personal information of complainants.

and

Please see this extract from a council publication:

I wish to see in electronic form all documentation in the council’s possession confirming that “wild camping here”, however defined, is illegal.

 

[groyne]

I totally agree with you R4dent, who ever put up this survey has made a lot of spurious claims. A £1 to a pinch of £$%^ it's one or 2 local bizzy bodies making all the complaints.
I hope your freedom of imformation request is successful.

I walk past another wild camping spot in R&C regularly. It usually has 2 or 3 vans in most nights, and I have yet to see any signs of black waste, or rubbish that could only be associated with motorhomers.
Maccy D wrappers, Pizza boxes and beer cans etc, now that's a different matter.

 

[Fisherman]

It’s the same old same old.
Apparently Cal Mac are transporting to many motorhomes to the islands, and to control numbers have doubled the fares for vans over 6M. Yet the data I posted on here showed that in summer only 3% of the vehicles are motorhomes, in winter it’s less than 1%. I have never seen more motorhomes than cars anywhere. In this months MMM an owner was told by a local that there are to many motorhomes in the carpark. The carpark takes 300, it was two thirds full. He looked around and there was only one other Motorhome. As for the usual anecdotal nonsense about dumping chemical waste, being abusive to locals, etc well I have no doubt it’s either completely untrue, or conveniently exaggerated. This is no more than nimbyism of the worse kind, supported by anecdotal unverified, spurious rubbish by people who are leading boring lives, with nothing better to do with their time.
I noted from the survey that tents got a mention, well therein lies the biggest problem, if it’s anything like up here.

 

[trevskoda]

It’s the same old same old.
Apparently Cal Mac are transporting to many motorhomes to the islands, and to control numbers have doubled the fares for vans over 6M. Yet the data I posted on here showed that in summer only 3% of the vehicles are motorhomes, in winter it’s less than 1%. I have never seen more motorhomes than cars anywhere. In this months MMM an owner was told by a local that there are to many motorhomes in the carpark. The carpark takes 300, it was two thirds full. He looked around and there was only one other Motorhome. As for the usual anecdotal nonsense about dumping chemical waste, being abusive to locals, etc well I have no doubt it’s either completely untrue, or conveniently exaggerated. This is no more than nimbyism of the worse kind, supported by anecdotal unverified, spurious rubbish by people who are leading boring lives, with nothing better to do with their time.

Some big words there my English teacher did not know.