Carry a scooter or M/bike in your garage?

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A very interesting thread which could have serious repurcussions for the motorhome community at large.

Channa
 
How far do you go, I use my scooter for pleasure, but I also use my bike is that carrying a load? Therefore are taking my walking boots and walking poles carrying a load, I take tea bags with me and these are often exchanged for a biscuit so is that classed as hire and REWARD as in the insurance document, my. An is insured but not for hire or reward does exchanging a cup of tea class as reward,
 
Looking at the actual legislation, rather than what people believe they have been told by DVLA, the definition of a "living van" is:

living van a vehicle used primarily as living accommodation by one or more persons, and which is not also used for the carriage of goods or burden which are not needed by such one or more persons for the purpose of their residence in the vehicle.

The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986

So I think they are wrong to suggest that if a vehicle is used to carry a scooter or motorbike then it must therefore be classed as a living van.

Why would a scooter or motorbike be classed as "goods", and your laptop, kettle and shoes not be? They're all personal possessions not being carried for commercial purposes.
 
I think the phrase "Preaching to the converted" could be used here.



or maybe just the alternative british past time ... "Having a good old moan"
 
If as has been suggested that this is due to VOSA being 'privatised', then I think it will only be resolved by a court case.
 
A living van and a motorcaravan acording to them are two dif things.
A living van may be one for carrage of horses scramble bikes with a section for living in,where as a m/caravan may only carry awnings chairs etc in the boot,on one site which i cannot find again a chap has been through court and fined when he was pulled by vosa,the exception is the carrage of an electric trike for those who have trouble walking.
 
all comes down to changes in the laws in 1988.
carrying bikes etc on a rack out side is ok.
if under 3,500kg then normal mot if over 3,500kg a living van is hgv test for mot.
as trev says there was a time a coach etc was used for moving stock cars etc . mind that changed in 1991 when coagh licence was taken away from many with only a car licence .
but its been wise to never go for mot with m,bikes or even blow up boats in your garage .
unfortunately many m,homes etc have really been marketted incorrectly for years .
even today many are still being sold with big garages enough for cars etc .
also trailers come into the living van rules if they have garage plus a living area .
its definately not a new idea .
there was something from ireland a few years ago that if you carried more than i think it was 2 bicycles in the garage that was enough.
 
if you have time google,,,,definition of a living van.
this subject as been going on for ever.
 
If this has been in force since 1988 and nothing has changed and also the fact that it seems open to interpretation and also given that as far as I am aware nobody carrying a scooter has fallen foul of it I think its for the birds. Ive been carting a scooter around on the back of the van for eleven years all over the UK and Europe without issue.
 
barryd said:
If this has been in force since 1988 and nothing has changed and also the fact that it seems open to interpretation and also given that as far as I am aware nobody carrying a scooter has fallen foul of it I think its for the birds. Ive been carting a scooter around on the back of the van for eleven years all over the UK and Europe without issue.
Click to expand...

on the back thats ok.
many have been refused anormall class 4 mot if the tester knows a m,bike is in the garage .
its been a sort of game for years .
its really about the mot . if stopped abroad they see a uk mot certificate and your ok.
driving licencing isnt effected.
mind that got kind of sorted with driving licence changes that opened different arguments about weights etc .
the laws and rules are not really plain english and still arent.
 
vwalan said:
all comes down to changes in the laws in 1988.
carrying bikes etc on a rack out side is ok.
if under 3,500kg then normal mot if over 3,500kg a living van is hgv test for mot.
as trev says there was a time a coach etc was used for moving stock cars etc . mind that changed in 1991 when coagh licence was taken away from many with only a car licence .
but its been wise to never go for mot with m,bikes or even blow up boats in your garage .
unfortunately many m,homes etc have really been marketted incorrectly for years .
even today many are still being sold with big garages enough for cars etc .
also trailers come into the living van rules if they have garage plus a living area .
its definately not a new idea .
there was something from ireland a few years ago that if you carried more than i think it was 2 bicycles in the garage that was enough.
Click to expand...

No hgv test here for my van at 6.3 ton,standard motor mot.
 
VOSA and not DVSA

It would appear that the main reason why this has hit the fan is for the single reason that VOSA (they used to be known as the DVSA) have lost their public funding.

As this is the case, bless them, the VOSA bods have been rifling through all the grey area laws so that they can start making money to cover their costs.

Over on Motorhome Builder one of our super star members has been in contact with not only VOSA but also the DVLA and the technical departments of both the large clubs, namely the C&MC and the C&CC. Neither of them had any knowledge for and about what is happening and following Squiffy's approach they are all working together in an attempt to sort it all out.

But, as of now Squiffy has received an email from a senior person within VOSA which clearly states:-

These are the definitions in The Road Vehicles(Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 as amended.

motor caravan

a motor vehicle which is constructed or adapted for the carriage of passengers and their effects and which contains, as permanently installed equipment, the facilities which are reasonably necessary for enabling the vehicle to provide mobile living accommodation for its users.

Living Van,

a vehicle used primarily as living accommodation by one or more persons, and which is also used for the carriage of goods or burden which are not needed by such one or more persons for the purpose of their residence in the vehicle.


A motorbike is not needed for the purpose of their residence in the vehicle it is an optional extra so therefore the vehicle carrying a motorbike is a living van and not motorhome.
Those lockers are for carrying items such as an awning and furniture to use in that awning for example. Or a disabled scooter if one of the occupants is disabled.

If you do not like this, and it would appear that you do not, you will need to take it up with your MP to see if you can get that regulation changed.
__________________________________________
​

So there you have it as far as it is now, a total bloody mess and one that clearly needs clearing up.

Phil
 
trevskoda said:
No hgv test here for my van at 6.3 ton,standard motor mot.
Click to expand...

i imagine you arent motting with a m,bike in the back then.
there was an article on google from the irish vosa or whatr ever a few years ago ,but cant find it now.
i know i used to have a coach years ago and the ministry warned me it was changing , thats how i first got my hgv licence to be ready . then as well as the mot catch they did away with bus licences unless you took a medical and signed a form , saying you had driven buses etc for awhile but not fare paying passengers . i had a medical for hgv so was covered by that one .
been following transport laws for years , had to when building weird vehicles for folk.
 
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Millie Master said:
But, as of now Squiffy has received an email from a senior person within VOSA which clearly states:-

These are the definitions in The Road Vehicles(Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 as amended.

motor caravan

a motor vehicle which is constructed or adapted for the carriage of passengers and their effects and which contains, as permanently installed equipment, the facilities which are reasonably necessary for enabling the vehicle to provide mobile living accommodation for its users.

Living Van,

a vehicle used primarily as living accommodation by one or more persons, and which is also used for the carriage of goods or burden which are not needed by such one or more persons for the purpose of their residence in the vehicle.


A motorbike is not needed for the purpose of their residence in the vehicle it is an optional extra so therefore the vehicle carrying a motorbike is a living van and not motorhome.
Those lockers are for carrying items such as an awning and furniture to use in that awning for example. Or a disabled scooter if one of the occupants is disabled.

If you do not like this, and it would appear that you do not, you will need to take it up with your MP to see if you can get that regulation changed.
__________________________________________
​

So there you have it as far as it is now, a total bloody mess and one that clearly needs clearing up.

Phil
Click to expand...
Highlighted key point above.

The difference is that the VOSA e-mail stated that a living van is ... also used to carry goods.

Whereas the actual legislation states the opposite. That a living van is ...not also used to carry goods.

"living van a vehicle used primarily as living accommodation by one or more persons, and which is not also used for the carriage of goods or burden which are not needed by such one or more persons for the purpose of their residence in the vehicle."


The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986

Am I being thick here or has someone at VOSA become confused trying to interpret the legislation, which isn't helped by the double negative.

According to legislation a vehicle CANNOT be classified as a living van if it is used for the carriage of goods.
 
shaunr68 said:
Highlighted key point above.

The difference is that the VOSA e-mail stated that a living van is ... also used to carry goods.

Whereas the actual legislation states the opposite. That a living van is ...not also used to carry goods.

"living van a vehicle used primarily as living accommodation by one or more persons, and which is not also used for the carriage of goods or burden which are not needed by such one or more persons for the purpose of their residence in the vehicle."


The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986

Am I being thick here or has someone at VOSA become confused trying to interpret the legislation, which isn't helped by the double negative.

According to legislation a vehicle CANNOT be classified as a living van if it is used for the carriage of goods.
Click to expand...
In the list of vehicle types in the link above, "Motor Caravan" is absent. I suspect that the definition of "Living Van" as noted there was used for the official definition of "Motor Caravan" (maybe to tie up with some Europe-Wide vehicle class?) and the "Living Van" was changed to a revised definition.

That's the problem with the internet ... in the search for information it is all to easy to find old superceeded rules which are not noted as being changed or recinded.
 
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