200A lithium

[rugbyken]

keep going backwards & forwards with this at almost 72 the projected lifespan of the batteries isn’t really a plus for me but the added capacity & weight saving may well be i have 2x125A lead acid batteries at the moment so this 200A battery would save me a lot of weight + giving me half as much again available power ?

 

[Robmac]

Seems to be a very good price Ken.

 

[Fisherman]

I am looking at the power road range in Alpha batteries.
This one has blutooth connectivity, and be charged at temperatures down to minus 20c. But I would require two and at £699 a pop I am swithering. I know we get a 7.5% discount, but it still leaves a large hole in my pocket. I will probably go down the AGM route.

12V 100AH POWEROAD INFINITY SUBZERO LOW TEMPERATURE LITHIUM LIFEPO4 BATTERY WITH BLUETOOTH MONITORING - Alpha Batteries

Poweroad - Time to go Lithium. Subzero version for extreme cold with charging capability up to -20c

www.alpha-batteries.co.uk

 

[CliveW]

I saw this on Amazon as well, terrific price for such a large capacity battery.

 

[Derekoak]

keep going backwards & forwards with this at almost 72 the projected lifespan of the batteries isn’t really a plus for me but the added capacity & weight saving may well be i have 2x125A lead acid batteries at the moment so this 200A battery would save me a lot of weight + giving me half as much again available power ? View attachment 102992

It should give a bit more than half as much again capacity and greater efficiency of charge from charge sources so equivalent to 15% more solar area. Also as the voltage dies not sag you use less amps to get the same effect.
Whether that battery can deal with charging when cold would be a potential problem but you could heat it .

 

[Derekoak]

I am looking at the power road range in Alpha batteries.
This one has blutooth connectivity, and be charged at temperatures down to minus 20c. But I would require two and at £699 a pop I am swithering. I know we get a 7.5% discount, but it still leaves a large hole in my pocket. I will probably go down the AGM route.

12V 100AH POWEROAD INFINITY SUBZERO LOW TEMPERATURE LITHIUM LIFEPO4 BATTERY WITH BLUETOOTH MONITORING - Alpha Batteries

Poweroad - Time to go Lithium. Subzero version for extreme cold with charging capability up to -20c

www.alpha-batteries.co.uk

When I looked months ago Alpha did not give discount on lithium.
However Lithium is better in lots of ways, you might well find that 1 x 100 ah lithium would be enough?
Alternatively you could keep one of your lead batteries and buy one lithium for a hybrid system like Wildebus is trying?

 

[Fisherman]

When I looked months ago Alpha did not give discount on lithium.
However Lithium is better in lots of ways, you might well find that 1 x 100 ah lithium would be enough?
Alternatively you could keep one of your lead batteries and buy one lithium for a hybrid system like Wildebus is trying?

Cheers, I may contact David and see how he is getting on.
but you would have to be careful you don't take to much from the lead acid battery.
But knowing David he will have taken that into consideration.
I currently have two 95 AH AGM batteries and struggle in winter.
So on that basis I thought I may need two.

 

[wildebus]

I am looking at the power road range in Alpha batteries.
This one has blutooth connectivity, and be charged at temperatures down to minus 20c. But I would require two and at £699 a pop I am swithering. I know we get a 7.5% discount, but it still leaves a large hole in my pocket. I will probably go down the AGM route.

12V 100AH POWEROAD INFINITY SUBZERO LOW TEMPERATURE LITHIUM LIFEPO4 BATTERY WITH BLUETOOTH MONITORING - Alpha Batteries

Poweroad - Time to go Lithium. Subzero version for extreme cold with charging capability up to -20c

www.alpha-batteries.co.uk

Is this for your new van? If the batteries are located inside, then the heater isn't really needed (the battery BMS will stop it being charged if too cold - and if it is that cold you won't be in the van anyway.
depending on the size/shape of the battery locker, you could consider the 200Ah or 150Ah Poweroad Base model - https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/12v-150ah-poweroad-base-lithium-lifepo4-battery/ (you can't connect these in parallel so only allowed ONE unit).
As you want to keep below 3500kg, I think Lithium is the way you need to go TBH if you want the same kind of capacity you have now. that 40Kg or so saving could be handy.

 

[Fisherman]

Is this for your new van? If the batteries are located inside, then the heater isn't really needed (the battery BMS will stop it being charged if too cold - and if it is that cold you won't be in the van anyway.
depending on the size/shape of the battery locker, you could consider the 200Ah or 150Ah Poweroad Base model - https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/12v-150ah-poweroad-base-lithium-lifepo4-battery/ (you can't connect these in parallel so only allowed ONE unit).
As you want to keep below 3500kg, I think Lithium is the way you need to go TBH if you want the same kind of capacity you have now. that 40Kg or so saving could be handy.

Thanks David I will give you a call sometime and we can discuss this.
I won’t be doing this for a while David.

 

[Nabsim]

I couldn’t believe the weight difference Ken, I know it’s says it in black and white but when you lift them in and out it really hits home. I took out 3x90ah battery’s at 26kg each and replaced with 2x100ah Lifepo4 at 13kg each. I haven’t looked back since swapping over, I have revised my charging to take advantage of the lithium more though and did add a bmv to monitor state of charge.
One think that David can probably answer, I believe you use a largish inverter, my understanding is it’s better to have two (or more) battery’s than one big one with inverters.

 

[wildebus]

It should give a bit more than half as much again capacity and greater efficiency of charge from charge sources so equivalent to 15% more solar area. Also as the voltage dies not sag you use less amps to get the same effect.
Whether that battery can deal with charging when cold would be a potential problem but you could heat it .

Lithium certainly does have many benefits and is usually the way to go if you ignore the upfront costs Speed of charge and charge efficiency are key ones, but the others you quote are also useful.

The cold charging aspect is important. if the battery is inside the van, then chances are when it is cold enough it shouldn't charge, you would not want to be in the van anyway so not using power. And if you want to charge unattended, could have a localised heater as you say. A decent BMS in the battery will stop an attempt to charge at cold temps, but there are plenty of cheap ones around that don't and you only get to know when it is too late You can add your own cutoff circuitry to disconnect, etc, but it is far simplier to just get a trustworthy battery instead of going down those lengths unless you really have a reason not to.
The Poweroad Subzero is a little different to many other heated batteries as I understand it. Often a heated battery will use battery energy to warm the battery; the Subzeros only use charging power to heat the battery when required, so no energy is lost from the battery, and the heater is only enabled when the circumstances require it (charge current over a certain value AND temp below a certain value, which activates heater (powered by the charger), and then once up to a set temp the BMS allows battery charging to start).
Over winter, it is very unlikely Solar charging will cross the current threshold where the battery needs to be heated so 100% of any harvesting would go into the battery. Mains charging or via Alternator is a different matter of course and protection/heating would be a must under 0C

 

[Stu2]

Interesting thread and helpful links.I only had solar fitted in May and been running 12v fridge constantly till this week no problem but found last couple of poor weather weekends away battery (95ah agm) been dropping to 12.2 _ 12.3v overnight.
So I'm thinking upgrade battery capacity. Budget was 300 but the 150ah lithium from alpha looks like it would suit me but over double the budget. Not heavy on use in van other than fridge, few lights and occasionally fan on " trauma"heating but spending too much time while away keeping an eye on monitor! Solar panel is 340w and controller 30amp I think.
We will be camping over winter.
I guess I just need to save up a bit more!!
be interested to know if anyone made upgrade to single lithium and how it performs?
cheers
Stu

 

[wildebus]

I couldn’t believe the weight difference Ken, I know it’s says it in black and white but when you lift them in and out it really hits home. I took out 3x90ah battery’s at 26kg each and replaced with 2x100ah Lifepo4 at 13kg each. I haven’t looked back since swapping over, I have revised my charging to take advantage of the lithium more though and did add a bmv to monitor state of charge.
One think that David can probably answer, I believe you use a largish inverter, my understanding is it’s better to have two (or more) battery’s than one big one with inverters.

One aspect of Lithium which you do need to be very careful of is indeed Inverters
If you use a big inverter with a smallish Lead-Acid, you will cause a voltage drop but the inverter will generally still work. With a Lithium battery, if the inverter exceeds the current rating of the batteries internal BMS, at best the battery will shut itself off (at worst you could maybe damage the BMS with poor quality "bargains"?).
So long story short .... check the continuous current rating of the Lithium Battery to check it is greater than the maximum current of the Inverter.

For the two Poweroad Batteries mentioned, the Poweroad base current matches the Capacity (so 75Ah battery has max current of 75A, 100Ah has max current of 100A) UP TO 100A. So the Poweroad base models only supports a maximum of 100A draw, which would equate to an Inverter no larger than 1000W at the most (remember the input to the inverter is generally around 20% more than the output and you have other non-inverter loads to include as well).

The Infinity Models are more capable, with a 150A Current per battery - so a pair of those would support 300A for example.
150A Current in a single 100AH Battery is fairly unusual, 100A is more typically the maximum and there are some that offer only 40A Max current, so a multiple battery array can be better depending on batteries selected.

 

[rugbyken]

thanks david i knew i’d seen something about combining batteries was better for some reason it states on this battery a continuous discharge of 200a & up to 400A over 3-5second so would that limit the load an inverter can run ie a 2kw kettle/toaster , this is the inverter i am currently running but as we’ve discussed before we are not power hungry users

 

[wildebus]

one thing to watch out for also ... some devices operate by pulsing the power. So a 800W Microwave set at 400W , or a 1000W Induction Hob set for 500W say will usually not actually run at half power, but will run at full power for half the time and be off for half the time (to average out the half power). Thereby needing an Inverter that supports the max power rating and a battery to match.
(there are a few microwaves and induction hobs that go genuinely to half power but pretty rare).