Hob Igniter Problem.

[vindiboy]

My van has a three burner hob, the igniter sparks on one burner only and lights the gas, if I light the other 2 burners with a match or whatever,and when the gas is burning ,if I operate the igniter there is a good spark in the flame and as long as the gas ring concerned remains hot it will relight with the igniter, when it cools it won't light [no spark ] . I have cleaned the igniter tip with glass paper and also the body of the burner where the spark should appear. I can get at the underside of the hob fairly easily and have checked all the connections all are good, I was told by the dealer where I got the van that the igniter is battery operated , this is not the case as I have traced all the cables and it is definitely powered from the 12 volt on the van.I can take the van in under warranty but it involves a round trip of 200 miles ,so I am tempted to ignore the fault and carry on with the match solution, [ gas lighter actually ].the van is eight years old so as this is the only fault in 6 months and a 5000 mile trip to Portugal I feel it is a mere bagatelle as they say.Does anyone have any idea what might be the cause of this weird happening ? I touched the igniter tip whilst operating the sparker and got a fair old electric shock from it so there is power there, I don't think the problem is associated with moisture causing a short.

 

[Channa]

Are you saying the other burners only light by match ? or wont light at all despite the spark ?

Channa

 

[David & Ann]

Just a suggestion. Have you checked the amount of gas flow for the ignitor to perform its function ?

 

[Smaug]

If there is no spark at the igniters but you get a shock then it must be finding a different way to earth. Probably thro grease around the igniter, try cleaning the electrodes with alcohol - meths is probably best if you have some. Use an old toothbrush & dry with a tissue to soak up the grease ( the meths may evaporate & leave grease behind otherwise).

As already stated, if you have a visible spark but it still doesn't light, there is a small hole in the burner that is directly "aimed" at the sparker electrodes, make sure that is clean & clear. Gas stoves are pretty simple but do need the basics to be right & they live in a very hostile environment with pans boiling over & lots of heat cycles.

 

[outtolunch]

is there any movement so that you can move the tips of the ignition probes closer to the earthing point also cleaning the ceramic insulator that holds the probes help stop shorting and check along the wires to see if they are shorting through the insulation to earth this could have left a slight mark as evidence.

 

[vindiboy]

Hi again . The burners light and stay alight if lit with a match, when burning and the ignitor fired,one can see a spark in the flame.Turn the gas off, fire the igniter again with gas turned on and it lights and stays alight, if the burner is allowed to cool it won't relight with the igniter.
I have cleaned the ceramic surrounds of the igniter and gas is issuing from the burner prior to lighting.
I have checked the wiring to all the igniter tips and it all appears to be OK.
I am happy that the igniter switch is working OK because one of the igniter tips is working properly.and the one switch [ toggle ] operates all igniters, or should.
The igniter tips are in a pre set position so cannot be adjusted closer to the body of the burners, Puzzled.

 

[Smaug]

Hi again . The burners light and stay alight if lit with a match, when burning and the ignitor fired,one can see a spark in the flame.Turn the gas off, fire the igniter again with gas turned on and it lights and stays alight, if the burner is allowed to cool it won't relight with the igniter.
I have cleaned the ceramic surrounds of the igniter and gas is issuing from the burner prior to lighting.
I have checked the wiring to all the igniter tips and it all appears to be OK.
I am happy that the igniter switch is working OK because one of the igniter tips is working properly.and the one switch [ toggle ] operates all igniters, or should.
The igniter tips are in a pre set position so cannot be adjusted closer to the body of the burners, Puzzled.

But is the gas coming from the small hole direcly adjacent to the sparker? Any muck in there can misdirect the gas jet away from the spark. Too much or too little gas may stop it igniting even with a strong spark, wit an already weak spark it will be even worse.

Try putting a screwdriver on one electrode to reduce the gap size & see if that induces a spark. A weak spark could be caused by dirt or corrosion in any of the connecotrs to that electrode. I suppose there is also a posibility of a cracked ceramic that short circuits the spark when cold, but closes up when hot, but that is a bit unlikely in my view.

I would focus on cleaning everything again, one item at a time on just one ring. That may help you identify the problem so that you only need to do the one fix on the second ring.

 

[vindiboy]

I have now discovered that if I rest a needle on the tip of the sparker insulated from the cooker with the tip of the Needle close to the body of the burner but not touching I can get a good spark, not only at the one with the needle on, but the other one ,that is not sparking, too.This suggest to me that the sparker tip is not close enough to the burner body so it cannot earth and cause a spark so this suggests that the tips are worn and it is these tips that need to be replaced, what puzzles me is that if the burners are lit and I operate the sparker I can see sparks at all burners so I can only assume the power is finding a path to earth via the flame, { is gas a conductor } as a gas flame contains a small cone of unburnt gas at it's point of combustion ?

 

[vindiboy]

But is the gas coming from the small hole direcly adjacent to the sparker? Any muck in there can misdirect the gas jet away from the spark. Too much or too little gas may stop it igniting even with a strong spark, wit an already weak spark it will be even worse.

Try putting a screwdriver on one electrode to reduce the gap size & see if that induces a spark. A weak spark could be caused by dirt or corrosion in any of the connecotrs to that electrode. I suppose there is also a posibility of a cracked ceramic that short circuits the spark when cold, but closes up when hot, but that is a bit unlikely in my view.

I would focus on cleaning everything again, one item at a time on just one ring. That may help you identify the problem so that you only need to do the one fix on the second ring.

I did what you suggested prior to reading your post only using a needle and got a spark, the gas always lights when the spark is present, getting the spark is the trick, there is no problem with the gas flow.

 

[vindiboy]

The gas always lights when the spark is present, getting the spark is the trick.

 

[Smaug]

Burning LPG creates water vapour - that will be your mystery conductor.

Try pushing the electrode nearer the burner with your finger to see it it will bend a little, but be careful not to crack the insulator. Can the whole electrode & insulator unit be moved slightly closer to the burner? See if there is a screw that can be loosened to allow some adjustment.

Also, try cleaning the burner nearest to the electrode to improve conductivity, or rust on the burner & gas feed pipe could be creating a poor earth connection (can be tested by running a wire from a good earth to a point near the electrode to see if you get a good spark then.

 

[Deleted member 8180]

If it works when the hob is hot but not when it's cold, suggests something to do with expansion? Does the igniter gap change? Try feeler gauges when hot and cold. May just need a bit of ' cold setting' (less educated folks call this 'bending')

 

[vindiboy]

Burning LPG creates water vapour - that will be your mystery conductor.

Try pushing the electrode nearer the burner with your finger to see it it will bend a little, but be careful not to crack the insulator. Can the whole electrode & insulator unit be moved slightly closer to the burner? See if there is a screw that can be loosened to allow some adjustment.

Also, try cleaning the burner nearest to the electrode to improve conductivity, or rust on the burner & gas feed pipe could be creating a poor earth connection (can be tested by running a wire from a good earth to a point near the electrode to see if you get a good spark then.

Thanks for all your help, I will try your suggestions tomorrow , I have already cleaned everything with glass paper and meths , the electrode can't be moved but I am now thinking that the gap between the electrode tip and the body of the burner is too big hence the good spark when using the needle tip, I have also considered low voltage but when I was playing with the system just now I ran the engine to increase the battery voltage and fired the igniter but that made no difference still no spark.I like your water vapour theory.

 

[Deleted member 27096]

More than likely its the igniter it self thats at fault.
they do become week after time and because yours operates 4 at the same time,most of its power goes to the 1 that always lights.
see if you can get a new replacement,,, you will probably find that this cures the fault.

 

[Smaug]

More than likely its the igniter it self thats at fault.
they do become week after time and because yours operates 4 at the same time,most of its power goes to the 1 that always lights.
see if you can get a new replacement,,, you will probably find that this cures the fault.

Hmm, good point, especially if the one that lights has the shortest lead! ie lowest resistance.

 

[vindiboy]

More than likely its the igniter it self thats at fault.
they do become week after time and because yours operates 4 at the same time,most of its power goes to the 1 that always lights.
see if you can get a new replacement,,, you will probably find that this cures the fault.

Well ,that brings me full circle to my first post, do I travel 200 miles round trip and have it done under the warranty or do I just continue to use an independent lighter and forget about it , decisions decisions.

 

[Smaug]

Well ,that brings me full circle to my first post, do I travel 200 miles round trip and have it done under the warranty or do I just continue to use an independent lighter and forget about it , decisions decisions.

That made me larf!

Phone 'em & explain the problem, they may just post you the part if you pile on the agony a bit. Or they may have an arrangement with a dealer local to you who will do it for them.

 

[Deleted member 27096]

phone them to tell of your problem but say your not going to travel that amount of miles for something so small. but if the make a note of this fault and promise to repair it even if the warranty has finished (get them to put it in writing and either mail or post it to you.), then next time your over their way you can pop in knowing that they will repair this fault for you...

In the mean time if your happy to use it as it is then I cant see any problem, unless they say other wise......

 

[vindiboy]

Hi again, well I have been in contact with the dealer from Portugal by E Mail and it was agreed that on our return home home we would speak about the problems I had,The warranty was for 6 months and expired 1st April but they agreed that as I had informed them of the problem prior to that they would honour the Warranty and I have to say they have been very helpful, Well we are now home and I have been on the phone to them and have an appointment to go to their premises on Tuesday next week, I live in Southampton and they are at Weston Super Mare, as we are going to the Shepton Show this weekend it was a good arrangement as Shepton puts me half way there, I would need to overnight somewhere near Weston and that would cost me money of course , these things start to add up and it becomes uneconomical to bother in the end, we don't think of these things when we buy Vehicles at shows do we.[ Hope I am not boring you LOL ].
Well another story, I went to Towsure today and bought 2 X 110 amp hr. Leisure batteries , paid £151-90 for the pair which included a discount for being a CCC member, brought them home and fitted them and all seems well, The batteries I replaced were 8 years old and were a bit suspect, [Not covered under warranty of course ] I was going to see what I could get at Shepton show but again if any thing went wrong with batteries bought there more traveling would no doubt be involved and Towsure is just up the road from us and I thought it would be hard to beat their price anyway.
So ,after fitting the batteries I decided to have a good look at the Cooker Igniter problem and took everything to bits, I cleaned the burners which I was able to dismantle, some rust was present , fitted new screws in the burner heads , took each sparker head off and cleaned everything I could, remade all the electrical connections and cleaned those I could get at, made sure all Earths were good and tightend every screw that needed it. Tested the system and Hey Presto all was working properly, so I don't know what exactly was the cause of the problem, but whatever it was it has gone away, a combination of little things I guess.So thanks for all your help and suggestions, I have not cancelled my appointment at Weston Super Mare yet, I will see what happens over the next few days at Shepton and if all is well I will cancel the appointment.:rabbit::rabbit::rabbit:

 

[Smaug]

Nice one, well done. You seem to have covered all the bases there!

I did have one other test that occurred to me in the early hours (funny how the mind keeps turning things over even as we sleep innit?). If it happens again, try swopping the leads around at the sparker to see if the problem moves as well. That would enable you to identify if the sparker was the problem or the leads or the igniter electrode.