media influence

[Pedalman]

"And it burns, burns, burns".

That Ring Of Fire.

 

[Minisorella]

I refused mine I’m not anti vax but for an illness with a survival rate of 99.7% ill Give the experimental jab a miss each to their own

It's impossible to quote an overall survival rate because it varies considerably according to age. The vast majority of cases of COVID were amongst the young, yet the vast majority of those who were hospitalised or died are over 60. Therefore, the survival rate for the young is going to be much much higher than for the old. I've searched and searched but can't find definitive data giving accurate survival or death rates amongst the infected according to age. Most of the stuff you see bandied about on social media are ridiculous figures based on the total size of the population in any age group but of course not all of them got sick, so you can't add them into the survival figures because they didn't catch anything in the first place. The closest I can find is that you have something approaching a 10% chance of death if you're over 80 and this reduces to 0.66% for the young. This doesn't allow for hospitalisations and long COVID although I found data that says 1 in 5 older people - 20% - will be hospitalised. One indisputable fact is that 98% of deaths occur in the over 60s, with numbers increasing by age. If you think back to the fact that the the vast majority of cases occur in the young, it becomes mind boggling. If you're young and decide not to be vaccinated, then it's a reasonable decision and good for you but if you're over 60, then good luck to you. It's a personal choice for each of us based on the facts and hopefully not on the scaremongering

You later said that the trials aren't complete but this isn't strictly true. The safety and efficacy trials were thoroughly completed but obviously subsequent real world data can only be gathered after vaccinations have taken place, as with all vaccines. We've now given out over 24 million vaccines in the UK alone and no-one here has died. We've heard of 3 people in Norway I think who have died from bloodclots but there is no evidence as yet that this truly has anything to do with the vaccine and it may well be proven otherwise. I think 3 possible cases out of the tens of millions of jabs already given worldwide speaks volumes for levels of safety.

 

[Trotter]

No one needs a ventilator for a hip operation or a new knee, and cancer patients who had treatment cancelled should come before patients who need a new a knee.
Unfortunately, anyone who needed a heart bypass that caught covid and died, was probably killed by covid because the covid attacked the weak heart.

Someone with kidney failure could be killed by covid19 if they caught it . They could have lived many more years with kidney failure if they hadn't caught it, so it is right that cause of death was covid 19 because it caused an early death.

As for covid patients filling up hospitals, yes they were, and still are to a lesser degree. What do you expect to happen, just let people suffocate and die at home from lung failure or do you believe it is all a hoax ?

Your last paragraph was a bit over the top wasn't it? If it's a hoax, it's a bloody expensive one. And if you wanted a reaction, then you're trying to wind up the wrong person.
I was trying to make a point, that because of the pandemic, many thousands of regular patients, had whatever treatment they were expecting, delayed indefinitely because there were no beds, staff or treatment available.
I believe this was because covid had such a devastating effect on medical logistics. Affected people were taken as priority cases. Not being a medical man, I've no idea if this was the correct course of action. It was the action taken, nothing can change that.
If the pandemic is now under control in this country, or hospitals are now able to cope, then maybe folks waiting for replacement surgeries could/should take priority over refuseniks.
I do know, having had a replacement knee, there wasn't a need for a ventilator.

 

[Pedalman]

It'smpossible to quote an overall survival rate because it varies considerably according to age. The vast majority of cases of COVID were amongst the young, yet the vast majority of those who were hospitalised or died are over 60. Therefore, the survival rate for the young is going to be much much higher than for the old. I've searched and searched but can't find definitive data giving accurate survival or death rates amongst the infected according to age. Most of the stuff you see bandied about on social media are ridiculous figures based on the total size of the population in any age group but of course not all of them got sick, so you can't add them into the survival figures because they didn't catch anything in the first place. The closest I can find is that you have something approaching a 10% chance of death if you're over 80 and this reduces to 0.66% for the young. This doesn't allow for hospitalisations and long COVID although I found data that says 1 in 5 older people - 20% - will be hospitalised. One indisputable fact is that 98% of deaths occur in the over 60s, with numbers increasing by age. If you think back to the fact that the the vast majority of cases occur in the young, it becomes mind boggling. If you're young and decide not to be vaccinated, then it's a reasonable deci good for you but if you're over 60, then good luck to you.

You later said that the trials aren't complete but this isn't strictly true. The safety and efficacy trials were thoroughly completed but obviously subsequent real world data can only be gathered after vaccinations have taken place, as with all vaccines. We've now given out over 24 million vaccines in the UK alone and no-one here has died. We've heard of 3 people in Norway I think who have died from bloodclots but there is no evidence as yet that this truly has anything to do with the vaccine and it may well be proven otherwise. I think 3 possible cases out of the tens of millions of jabs already given speaks volumes for levels of safety.

Excellent comment.
I'd read that the figure of 98.7% survival rate was for young healthy people, so 1.3% of the young healthy people died, and we know even people in their 20s 30s 40s 50s have sadly died. Some older people, 60s 70s 80s and 90s have survived after a long and massive battle when it was touch and go.
As you said the overall survival rate is impossible to quote accurately .

 

[Wully]

Dumb ways to die. Got a feeling not getting vaccinated should be another verse in this wee ditty.

 

[Pedalman]

Your last paragraph was a bit over the top wasn't it? If it's a hoax, it's a bloody expensive one. And if you wanted a reaction, then you're trying to wind up the wrong person.
I was trying to make a point, that because of the pandemic, many thousands of regular patients, had whatever treatment they were expecting, delayed indefinitely because there were no beds, staff or treatment available.
I believe this was because covid had such a devastating effect on medical logistics. Affected people were taken as priority cases. Not being a medical man, I've no idea if this was the correct course of action. It was the action taken, nothing can change that.
If the pandemic is now under control in this country, or hospitals are now able to cope, then maybe folks waiting for replacement surgeries could/should take priority over refuseniks.
I do know, having had a replacement knee, there wasn't a need for a ventilator.

I hope I didn't misunderstand your position on the pandemic. Many people who argue about the survival rate also say it is just a "bad flu" and they believe the government is lying to us. Some covid deniers have even gone into hospitals and filmed empty corridors at 10pm claiming the hospitals are lying about how busy they are, which to me is doing the doctors and nurses a serious disservice, they are basically calling the NHS staff liars.
I just get annoyed at such idiocy and I tend, rightly or wrongly, to tar everyone who argues like that with the same brush.

 

[Trotter]

I hope I didn't misunderstand your position on the pandemic. Many people who argue about the survival rate also say it is just a "bad flu" and they believe the government is lying to us. Some covid deniers have even gone into hospitals and filmed empty corridors at 10pm claiming the hospitals are lying about how busy they are, which to me is doing the doctors and nurses a serious disservice, they are basically calling the NHS staff liars.
I just get annoyed at such idiocy and I tend, rightly or wrongly, to tar everyone who argues like that with the same brush.

Call me Jack Tar. Forget the jolly bit. Don't do jolly.

 

[Deleted member 79302]

It's impossible to quote an overall survival rate because it varies considerably according to age. The vast majority of cases of COVID were amongst the young, yet the vast majority of those who were hospitalised or died are over 60. Therefore, the survival rate for the young is going to be much much higher than for the old. I've searched and searched but can't find definitive data giving accurate survival or death rates amongst the infected according to age. Most of the stuff you see bandied about on social media are ridiculous figures based on the total size of the population in any age group but of course not all of them got sick, so you can't add them into the survival figures because they didn't catch anything in the first place. The closest I can find is that you have something approaching a 10% chance of death if you're over 80 and this reduces to 0.66% for the young. This doesn't allow for hospitalisations and long COVID although I found data that says 1 in 5 older people - 20% - will be hospitalised. One indisputable fact is that 98% of deaths occur in the over 60s, with numbers increasing by age. If you think back to the fact that the the vast majority of cases occur in the young, it becomes mind boggling. If you're young and decide not to be vaccinated, then it's a reasonable decision and good for you but if you're over 60, then good luck to you. It's a personal choice for each of us based on the facts and hopefully not on the scaremongering

You later said that the trials aren't complete but this isn't strictly true. The safety and efficacy trials were thoroughly completed but obviously subsequent real world data can only be gathered after vaccinations have taken place, as with all vaccines. We've now given out over 24 million vaccines in the UK alone and no-one here has died. We've heard of 3 people in Norway I think who have died from bloodclots but there is no evidence as yet that this truly has anything to do with the vaccine and it may well be proven otherwise. I think 3 possible cases out of the tens of millions of jabs already given worldwide speaks volumes for levels of safety.

Fair comments but I will wait and see how the jabs perform next winter when they come into contact with the wild virus and the trials are completed I agree with you about decisions being made because of scaremongering but I would say the scaremongering is on both sides with the whole debate even more toxic than Brexit

 

[Deleted member 79302]

The survival rate you talk about is tenuous because to "survive" many many people need to be in hospital fighting for their lives for many weeks. Some come out very weak and unable to walk because of muscle wastage, many "survivors" don't get back to normal....but yes they "survive".
If you want to take the risk and go through that precarious battle to "survive" then good luck to you, BUT when everyone is vaccinated that wants it, it will be the unvaccinated people like yourself who are in the vulnerable category.
On the bright side, there will be plenty of ventilator beds available for you.

The survival rate I talk about is the fact that for most people it’s a mild illness yes people die and people get very ill but most don’t, but thanks for your good wishes on my future health and in the same spirit I wish you good health and sincerely hope that those like yourself that take the jab with enthusiasm don’t suffer the same fate that animals have in the past when after receiving corona virus jabs then came into contact with the wild virus.

 

[Minisorella]

Fair comments but I will wait and see how the jabs perform next winter when they come into contact with the wild virus and the trials are completed I agree with you about decisions being made because of scaremongering but I would say the scaremongering is on both sides with the whole debate even more toxic than Brexit

To be honest, unlike the B word, I don't think this has been especially divisive. I very rarely hear a dissenting voice about the vaccine... as witnessed by the massive and enthusiastic take up so far
I truly don't understand your comments about 'wild virus'. Are you talking about future mutations or another surge or just what's out there now? Everyone who catches the virus gets it 'in the wild'. You've confused me!... easily done

 

[colinm]

Fair comments but I will wait and see how the jabs perform next winter when they come into contact with the wild virus and the trials are completed I agree with you about decisions being made because of scaremongering but I would say the scaremongering is on both sides with the whole debate even more toxic than Brexit

The 'trials', as you seem to refer to 'real life', have so far proven the vaccine to work well, at the moment cv-19 appears to being spread by many age groups now, more middle age groups are now going in to hospital as their parents spread the disease.
Typed as I sit in hospital (not due to cv-19)

 

[mark61]

To be honest, unlike the B word, I don't think this has been especially divisive. I very rarely hear a dissenting voice about the vaccine... as witnessed by the massive and enthusiastic take up so far
I truly don't understand your comments about 'wild virus'. Are you talking about future mutations or another surge or just what's out there now? Everyone who catches the virus gets it 'in the wild'. You've confused me!... easily done

Correlation does not imply causation.

You'll soon be telling us harvest causes winter

 

[Deleted member 79302]

To be honest, unlike the B word, I don't think this has been especially divisive. I very rarely hear a dissenting voice about the vaccine... as witnessed by the massive and enthusiastic take up so far
I truly don't understand your comments about 'wild virus'. Are you talking about future mutations or another surge or just what's out there now? Everyone who catches the virus gets it 'in the wild'. You've confused me!... easily done

Yea sorry I mean what’s out there or future mutations as opposed to whats being injected

 

[Deleted member 79302]

The 'trials', as you seem to refer to 'real life', have so far proven the vaccine to work well, at the moment cv-19 appears to being spread by many age groups now, more middle age groups are now going in to hospital as their parents spread the disease.
Typed as I sit in hospital (not due to cv-19)

So far yes but it’s early days hopefully everything will go well but personally as the manufacturers don’t have enough confidence in their products to accept any liability thats a red flag for me, put it another way I wouldn’t buy a domestic appliance that was made with new technology without a warranty let alone allow a new tech substance be injected in to my body with no certainty of how well it will work how long it will last or how safe it is. I hope you get back on your feet soon

 

[colinm]

So far yes but it’s early days hopefully everything will go well but personally as the manufacturers don’t have enough confidence in their products to accept any liability thats a red flag for me, put it another way I wouldn’t buy a domestic appliance that was made with new technology without a warranty let alone allow a new tech substance be injected in to my body with no certainty of how well it will work how long it will last or how safe it is. I hope you get back on your feet soon

I have a certain amount of product liability insurance, this doesn't cover me for all the work I do, if someone wants me to do a job not covered then they have to pay the extra insurance, in the case of cv-19 some countries have said they will pay extra and Astrazeneca covers liabilities, others have chosen to pay less and cover the costs.

 

[Deleted member 79302]

I have a certain amount of product liability insurance, this doesn't cover me for all the work I do, if someone wants me to do a job not covered then they have to pay the extra insurance, in the case of cv-19 some countries have said they will pay extra and Astrazeneca covers liabilities, others have chosen to pay less and cover the costs.

Pfizer given protection from legal action over coronavirus vaccine by UK government

Pfizer’s UK boss refuses to explain why the business needs protection from legal action

www.independent.co.uk

AstraZeneca to be exempt from coronavirus vaccine liability claims in most countries

AstraZeneca has been granted protection from future product liability claims related to its COVID-19 vaccine hopeful by most of the countries with which it has struck supply agreements, a senior executive told Reuters.

www.reuters.com

Consultation document: changes to Human Medicine Regulations to support the rollout of COVID-19 vaccines

www.gov.uk

 

[tidewatcher]

Given the current climate regarding what seems to be tenuous reasons to undermine the Oxford jab what do you reckon our chances are in the Eurovision Song Contest this year?

 

[Pedalman]

Now Germany as well. Seems that Europe are looking for any excuse not to use the AZ jab. More for us !

I wonder if these countries that have put the vaccine on hold have looked at how many people get blood clots in a normal year just living normally ?
Some people get blood clots (DVTs) from flying in aeroplanes but they don't close their airports to everyone.

 

[Pedalman]

The survival rate I talk about is the fact that for most people it’s a mild illness yes people die and people get very ill but most don’t, but thanks for your good wishes on my future health and in the same spirit I wish you good health and sincerely hope that those like yourself that take the jab with enthusiasm don’t suffer the same fate that animals have in the past when after receiving corona virus jabs then came into contact with the wild virus.

The vaccines cannot cause covid, the vaccine only contains a tiny part of the virus called the "spike" . This triggers our immune system into producing antibodies.

 

[Pedalman]

Given the current climate regarding what seems to be tenuous reasons to undermine the Oxford jab what do you reckon our chances are in the Eurovision Song Contest this year?

The Eurovision song contest ? Ah yes I remember that.

Have the vaccine or not. Not for us to force anyone.
But don't create a fuss if you become ill. Choices have consequences.

The vaccine turning you into a robot has to be the funniest conspiracy so far.

Who is going to go to the trouble of coming up with a vaccine that turns robots into robots.

Everyone knows it’s an update for the cookie cleaner.

Conspiracy theories turn people into brain dead cretins.